Buck losing games

[jerm13]

P.S.

Tillman was also terrible in his last game, and Jimenez managed to give the team 5 innings of 1-run ball.

Against the worst team in the AL.

His last 2 wins were against the Padres, one of the worst teams in the NL. So yeah, I guess Jimenez pitches decent against the truly awful teams.

[Dannyboy]

Gausman's display tonight is the reason you play to win the tie game last night. Gausman never wins on the road.

Right, cause we all knew he was going to stink tonight.

[Dannyboy]

How did he get cute? Giving Gausman extra rest or letting Gallardo and Tillman take their normal turn to pitch? Worley pitched sunday so he wasn't starting Thursday so Ubaldo had to pitch in Minn. against a team he's had success against. And btw, Gausmans last start in Toronto, 6.1 inn. 8h, 3r, 2er. Last nights loss had nothing to do with Ubaldo, nothing to do with Buck, and alot to do with Gausman pitching poorly.

[thezeroes]

How did he get cute? Giving Gausman extra rest or letting Gallardo and Tillman take their normal turn to pitch? Worley pitched sunday so he wasn't starting Thursday so Ubaldo had to pitch in Minn. against a team he's had success against. And btw, Gausmans last start in Toronto, 6.1 inn. 8h, 3r, 2er. Last nights loss had nothing to do with Ubaldo, nothing to do with Buck, and alot to do with Gausman pitching poorly.

This about sums the scenario up.

I wonder if, given Brachs last outing, that Buck may have known something that he was not letting others in on. Brach may have let Management know that he was hitting a wall and could use the e-xtra rest to freshen the arm up a bit.

Despagne had just come off a stint that was shutout ball for 3 2/3 inning. Brach was coming off two appearances in which he pitched an inning and two thirds while giving up three runs. With some poster only looking at that particular games stats, I guess this was LOST on them. Hence this entire thread.

[OFFNY]

Well, this is why I didn't get the logic of sacrificing a game to save the best relievers for this series. The Big Three aren't going to be of much use in a blowout.

Tonight's game was not a blowout.

The offense showed up tonight, the relief was great, and the starter was terrible.

Showalter cannot anticipate everything, and he (like almost all managers that don't have 100-Plus win teams) has limited resources to work with.

P.S.

Tillman was also terrible in his last game, and Jimenez managed to give the team 5 innings of 1-run ball.

That's life over the course of the 162-game season. All sorts of crap comes up while you're busy making other plans. If Showlater had "gone for it" last night, the Orioles still might have lost the game in extra innings, and they might have even less bullpen resources to work with tomorrow than they do now.

Against the worst team in the AL.

His last 2 wins were against the Padres, one of the worst teams in the NL. So yeah, I guess Jimenez pitches decent against the truly awful teams.

The point was not that Jimenez is a good (or even a decent) pitcher.

The point was that even the best pitchers (like Tillman) have bad games, and that bad pitchers (like Jimenez) will occasionally have good games, and that managers cannot anticipate everything that happens throughout the course of the 162-game season.

[OFFNY]

Well, this is why I didn't get the logic of sacrificing a game to save the best relievers for this series. The Big Three aren't going to be of much use in a blowout.

Tonight's game was not a blowout.

The offense showed up tonight, the relief was great, and the starter was terrible.

Showalter cannot anticipate everything, and he (like almost all managers that don't have 100-Plus win teams) has limited resources to work with.

P.S.

Tillman was also terrible in his last game, and Jimenez managed to give the team 5 innings of 1-run ball.

That's life over the course of the 162-game season. All sorts of crap comes up while you're busy making other plans. If Showlater had "gone for it" last night, the Orioles still might have lost the game in extra innings, and they might have even less bullpen resources to work with tomorrow than they do now.

Against the worst team in the AL.

His last 2 wins were against the Padres, one of the worst teams in the NL. So yeah, I guess Jimenez pitches decent against the truly awful teams.

o

The point was not that Jimenez is a good (or even a decent) pitcher.

The point was that even the best pitchers (like Tillman) have bad games, and that bad pitchers (like Jimenez) will occasionally have good games, and that managers cannot anticipate everything that happens throughout the course of the 162-game season.

o

And now, Jimenez has had 7 consecutive solid starts.

I would not have guessed or predicted that to happen, but I'm glad that it did.

[Tx Oriole]

o

And now, Jimenez has had 7 consecutive solid starts.

I would not have guessed or predicted that to happen, but I'm glad that it did.

Me too. He has really turned it around.

[O's are Legends]

That wasn't a fun game to attend. Buck kept Miley in way too long.

[Norfolk orioles]

Quite easily buck's worst game as oriole's manager.

He used to always push Chen as well but it usually wasn't in a season changing position.

Truly awful.

[O's are Legends]

Quite easily buck's worst game as oriole's manager.

He used to always push Chen as well but it usually wasn't in a season changing position.

Truly awful.

All the Yankee fans around me which was everyone was shocked Buck kept sticking with Miley and were obviously very grateful for it.

[Surhoffan17]

All the Yankee fans around me which was everyone was shocked Buck kept sticking with Miley and were obviously very grateful for it.

Apparently, Buck said that he thought the Yankees would start pinch-hitting their lefties. We know Givens isn't good against them. I still think it was the wrong call, because Miley

didn't seem to have it.

I agree about Chen. I can remember a game in KC where he kept him in too long and we lost.

[Old#5fan]

Apparently, Buck said that he thought the Yankees would start pinch-hitting their lefties. We know Givens isn't good against them. I still think it was the wrong call, because Miley

didn't seem to have it.

I agree about Chen. I can remember a game in KC where he kept him in too long and we lost.

I thought Buck just left Miley in one batter too long. But in hindsight I doubt it mattered the way Brach came in and bought the farm, crapped the bed, or however you wish to term it. I knew when he went 3-1 on Ellsbury he would likely walk him and if so, it would lead to something terrible. You could see it coming as soon as he did that!

[spiritof66]

I have just returned from a very distressing afternoon at the ballpark. It may be that everything I'm about to say has been said repeatedly in the last few hours, but here goes.

Over the course of the last few years, I have defended (either by commenting or refraining from comment) decisions by Showalter that seemed to me to be questionable or clearly wrong. Most of them were instances when I thought Buck stayed too long with a starter. I told myself (and sometimes said in the game threads) that while I (or many of us) might think Buck was wrong, (a) he has been a successful manager for a long time and understands these things far better than I do, that he knows his personnel and that he can see (and discuss with his coaches and the pitchers themselves) how a pitcher is throwing, and (b) while I might think that a decision, and in particular a decision to bring in a reliever, would help the Orioles win that game, Showalter has to factor in the readiness and fatigue of the entire staff and what he expects to do in future games against specific opponents (including considering MiL call-ups and demotions) -- all stuff that I can't know more than a tiny bit about. So I have pretty much scratched my head and figured that Showalter knew what he was doing, even if found his reasoning difficult or impossible to understand.

Today's game was different for two reasons. First, the Orioles are fighting -- unexpectedly to many of us -- not only for a WC berth but also for home field advantage. It's not quite do-or-die, but it's pretty darn close, especially if you consider home-field advantage for the WC to be important, and I do. Second, while I am no expert on pitching, it was obvious that Miley was tiring in the fifth inning, and then when he escaped a jam in that frame he was pretty well gassed. Starting then, and continuing in the sixth, his pitches had no finish to them; he wasn't fooling anybody; and he pretty much lost the ability to throw low strikes. I started yelling that the Orioles should get someone warmed up, but the bullpen was quiet. Recognizing Showalter's penchant for allowing starters who are ahead to complete five innings. I resigned myself to Miley going five innings with one run -- which I considered a real good performance -- and hoped he wouldn't come out for the sixth and leave runners on for the reliever. I was about 15 rows back, even with third base, and over the sixth and seventh (with help from an Orioles fan who reassured me a couple of times that I wasn't just mixed up about the score or the inning), I screamed, pleaded, and begged as I loudly as I could for some help from the bullpen: Worley, Bundy, Givens, Hunter, anybody. I may have overreacted (as I tend to do when I see someone doing something I feel sure is wrong that I can't prevent), and I certainly went over the top when I called Showalter a ****ing idiot. I feel bad about that.

The next couple innings were kind of a blur, like a bad dream. I realized near the end of the game that I had stopped keeping score. I didn't like going to Brach and letting him stay in as long as Buck did, but by then there seemed to be no point. Yankee fans near me were were laughing good-naturedly at the Orioles' plight (and probably at me) and chanting "We love Buck."

You never know what would have happened if a different decision had been made, and there were other factors that contributed to the loss, including the familiar lack of clutch hitting against some pretty hittable pitchers. But both the NYYs, with a none-too-stellar lineup, and the slender crowd were pretty much sleepwalking through the game until late in the fifth and then the sixth inning. If the bullpen had been deployed earlier, I think that might have continued to the end of the game.

If anyone is still reading this rant, thanks. My point is that I don't understand the decision(s) to leave Miley in for so long in a game of this importance, and I don't think I ever will. To me, it's indefensible as a lefty/righty basis. This was a failure to replace a starter who was losing his effectiveness, from all appearances because of fatigue, with a fresh bullpen arm.

I don't question this team's ability to bounce back tomorrow. But -- and I could be wrong here -- the Orioles' facial expressions and body language as they came in the dugout from the sixth inning on today were not great. It's very possible that there are Orioles players who believe, as I do, that their manager hurt their chances of to win today.