Trade Kim and replace him with Mancini

[eddie83]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't believe Buck thinks Kim is that player moving forward and he'd rather have a .280/320/480 guy than a .280/.340/.390 guy.   

Not trying to be a jerk but I think you are projecting your opinion onto Buck. 

It floors me how you just assume Mancini is going to produce at that rate as if it is a given. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Well, we are just going to have to disagree on this one.  I think you can't just look at 7 games.   Mancini has shown he can hit for power in the majors.  He has hit for average in the minors and in ST.  His OBP was good in Bowie and last year away from Harbor Park.   His throwing arm has been impressive in the the first  severn games.   He moves better in the outfield than Kim does.  He also has played left and right field.   Kim is pretty much a leftielder for the O's.   

If I look at Mancini overall he is a multidimensional player.   Kim does one thing well.  Gets on base.  He does pretty much everything else below average.

I haven't seen any evidence that Mancini's arm is better than Kim's.    His throws have been reasonably accurate but not that strong IMO.     So far as I can see, Kim is a LHB, Mancini is a RHB, Mancini is more likely to hit for power, Kim is more likely to have the higher OBP.    I don't have enough evidence either way as to who will be more productive, but I don't see Mancini as being "multidimensional" in any event.   Unless you consider Trumbo multidimensional.   

[Babypowder]

21 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

.353 with a 380 slugging for a guy who is slow on the bases and poor defensively.  I don't want anyone else to give me that.

In your scenario, which is essentially the worst case scenario for Kim and the best case scenario for Mancini, Mancini would indeed be preferable. I don't put much stock or weight into partial season splits, so I like to consider Kim as the guy who put up a 129 wRC+ vs RHP last season. I'll take the under on Mancini for that in 2017.

[eddie83]

24 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

.353 with a 380 slugging for a guy who is slow on the bases and poor defensively.  I don't want anyone else to give me that.

If Mancini doesn't hit what else does he give the team? He isn't fast or a good defender. 

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I haven't seen any evidence that Mancini's arm is better than Kim's.    His throws have been reasonably accurate but not that strong IMO.     So far as I can see, Kim is a LHB, Mancini is a RHB, Kim is more likely to hit for power, Kim is more likely to have the higher OBP.    I don't have enough evidence either way as to who will be more productive, but I don't see Mancini as being "multidimensional" in any event.   Unless you consider Trumbo multidimensional.   

Well I can't help you much if you think the Kim has more power than Mancini. I think that is just crazy talk.  I think you are bias against Mancini.

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I don't believe Buck thinks Kim is that player moving forward and he'd rather have a .280/320/480 guy than a .280/.340/.390 guy.   

That may be true.  I think Kim was a little over his head last year.  But I'm not convinced Mancini is the former hitter, either.  And I'm not at all convinced Mancini can play a passable LF.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

That may be true.  I think Kim was a little over his head last year.  But I'm not convinced Mancini is the former hitter, either.  And I'm not at all convinced Mancini can play a passable LF.

You should be loving all this. You love platoons. Mancini is exhibit A of having a 26 man roster. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Well I can't help you much if you think the Kim has more power than Mancini. I think that is just crazy talk.  I think you are bias against Mancini.

In the minors Mancini averaged 13 homers per 500 PAs.  He has some power, sure.  But is it going to translate to production in the majors alongside his Adam Jones walk rate (33 per 500 PA in the minors)?

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, eddie83 said:

You should be loving all this. You love platoons. Mancini is exhibit A of having a 26 man roster. 

I prefer 10-man staffs to 26-man rosters.

Is there any real evidence this is going to be a platoon?  If so, shouldn't Kim be getting 2/3rds of the PAs?

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well I can't help you much if you think the Kim has more power than Mancini. I think that is just crazy talk.  I think you are bias against Mancini.

I think he misspoke here.  

Look I think Mancini has far better odds of having a long productive career with the Orioles than Kim. That said this is about 2017 not the future. 

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I prefer 10-man staffs to 26-man rosters.

Is there any real evidence this is going to be a platoon?  If so, shouldn't Kim be getting 2/3rds of the PAs?

We haven't been facing any RHP. Buck isn't going to put Kim into the middle of a game because he isn't a good defender himself. 

I think with the way pitchers are handled now and the money invested in them we aren't going backwards. I really hope MLB adds a player or 2 to rosters. All the strategy late in games is the pen. Managers have few options off the bench to counter. I think it would be good for the game to increase roster sizes. No longer are amphatamines legal. Bigger roster sizes may actually lead to some mangers resting their  regulars more. The game changed with number of pitchers per team and the position players who play everyday anyway are the ones who have suffered. 

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well I can't help you much if you think the Kim has more power than Mancini. I think that is just crazy talk.  I think you are bias against Mancini.

Or, I made a typo.   I meant to say Mancini has more power.   So it's a SLG/OBP tradeoff between the two.   Sorry for the confusion.  

[Grt 2BA FL Gator]

Someone said it earlier. Kim brings something to this team that really no one else does aside from maybe Smith. We need at least one guy that can have a quality AB, and that's one thing Kim does time and time again.

 

The current lineup is enough to drive me batty at times with the type of swings we take. I think my stress level would go up a few more notches if we got rid of Kim. 

[Moondoggie]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think you are getting run over by a train.   Mancini is on a roll.   I like Rickard but right now Mancini is offering more dimensions.   Kim's high OBP is his single above average skill.  Right now Mancini is showing many facets to his game.     Sure Mancini may misplay a few balls in the outfield while he is learning the position but he is showing potential with the army, glove and bat.  Buck said of Mancini's play last night that he would take 4 runs driven in over one left in.  (paraphrased)

Well, that's nice, but I'm not going to get overly excited because Mancini homered on a beach ball lobbed to the plate by a knuckleball pitcher whose pitches wouldn't knuckle and a fat pitch by a Class AAA pitcher who was only there because of injuries and got optioned to Pawtucket this morning. Keep in mind that he was 2-for-12 coming into the game and mostly hadn't gotten the ball out of the infield on his outs, so if he's been on a roll it's been rolling grounders. He also missed badly swinging at one of Joe Kelly's sliders on his strikeout. So what's going to happen when big league pitchers start throwing him breaking pitches? That remains to be seen, but his minor league history is one of a guy who pounces on mistakes but has had issues with contact. And it's all been a very small sample size.

Now I happen to be one who thinks Trey Mancini has a future as a hitter in the big leagues (at least as a platoon and bench bat, a la Matt Adams). I'm not convinced he has a future as an outfielder. Even with experience, he's still going to be slow as molasses. And if the Orioles are insistent in keeping his bat in the lineup, they'd be better off DHing him and playing Trumbo out there. Trumbo is slow and not very good, but at least he's experienced at being slow and not very good out there. If they're serious about turning him into an outfielder, they'd better let him learn the position in Norfolk. It's not like we're talking about Eddie Murray here. We're talking about a guy who scouts believe as an upside as a .260-.270 hitter (if he can improve his contact rate) with 20 or so homers a year in the big leagues. There are a lot of those guys around and most of them can play outfield better than Mancini.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

 

It's baseball.  Nothing is a given.    Mancini, Davis, and Trumbo and can hit it out of any part of Camden Yards.    Jones and Schoop almost never hit one out to RF.    Mancini can hit.   Over .300 lifetime in the minors.    I expect a good average, low walks, high strikeouts, but with power and production.    I don't assume it.     I actually think he'll hit better than in AAA because of his home park in both places.    Hitting one out to RF and RCF in Norfolk is really tough even for a LH hitter.    In Camden, Mancini can do it easily.

 

All that may happen. However I don't think you are going to lose Kim over it when the Orioles are trying to contend. Losing Kim limits the options we have. Even if Trey becomes a productive everyday player that doesn't mean he will start out like that.