The top 8 prospects in baseball are international signees

[Cumberbundy]

Can we keep up with other teams if we don't compete internationally? Mlb.com released their mid-season top 100 and the Orioles only had Chance Sisco (50) on it. Each of the top 8 are international signees, with teams expanding their scouting how can we contend for titles down the road? 

[hoosiers]

Quote

 

Most teams with Jonathan Schoop would be like - thank you, sir, may I have another? - and our ownership/front office says, "no, we don't need another."

[sportsfan8703]

47 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Most teams with Jonathan Schoop would be like - thank you, sir, may I have another? - and our ownership/front office says, "no, we don't need another."

Schoop doesn't count because he wasn't on a top 30 list by BA and we didn't have to give him $1.2 million to sign when he was 16. 

We're actually pretty good when we do spend money down there. 

[joelala]

Our disregard for the international market defies all common sense, and is for me, by far, the most frustrating aspect of the the franchise.

Maybe Peter Angelos and Duquette are White Nationalists/Supremecists???

Jokes, but I literally cannot think of any other justifications for our neglect of such a crucial market(s). 

[joelala]

And to answer your initial question Cumberbundy, no, I don't think we can keep up.

[Camden_yardbird]

1 hour ago, joelala said:

Our disregard for the international market defies all common sense, and is for me, by far, the most frustrating aspect of the the franchise.

Maybe Peter Angelos and Duquette are White Nationalists/Supremecists???

Jokes, but I literally cannot think of any other justifications for our neglect of such a crucial market(s). 

I actually think I remember it originally being couched as a protest against the system.  The Orioles couldn't hope to get prospects if they had to compete with big market teams and the comparative value of money spent on prospects to actual outcomes was poor.

No joyrnalist with any mettle has pushed them on it recently so we don't know.  All dan says is its an ownership decision.  What does ownership say and how do they defend that position?

[DirtyBird]

Maybe there is a subjective bias causing these prospects to be ranked higher.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, joelala said:

Our disregard for the international market defies all common sense, and is for me, by far, the most frustrating aspect of the the franchise.

Maybe Peter Angelos and Duquette are White Nationalists/Supremecists???

Jokes, but I literally cannot think of any other justifications for our neglect of such a crucial market(s). 

Dan has made it clear that this is not his choice but Potter's. 

[99ct]

What ever happened to that Dominican academy we were building like 5-8 years ago? 

[Tx Oriole]

16 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

Can we keep up with other teams if we don't compete internationally? Mlb.com released their mid-season top 100 and the Orioles only had Chance Sisco (50) on it. Each of the top 8 are international signees, with teams expanding their scouting how can we contend for titles down the road? 

Don't think they can. Don't know why ownership is so against international signings for the O's. 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, joelala said:

Our disregard for the international market defies all common sense, and is for me, by far, the most frustrating aspect of the the franchise.

Maybe Peter Angelos and Duquette are White Nationalists/Supremecists???

Jokes, but I literally cannot think of any other justifications for our neglect of such a crucial market(s). 

Don't be stupid. I don't think DD or Mr. Angelos are Nationalists for whites only. What you are saying borders on a no no. 

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, joelala said:

Our disregard for the international market defies all common sense, and is for me, by far, the most frustrating aspect of the the franchise.

Maybe Peter Angelos and Duquette are White Nationalists/Supremecists???

Jokes, but I literally cannot think of any other justifications for our neglect of such a crucial market(s). 

I don't know much about how the market for Latin American talent works, but I do know that for a lot of teams -- including the Dodgers, NYYs, and some others with visible operations and, I think, a lot of success in these signings -- the Latin American spend consists of more than signing promising young players to contracts. They have extensive infrastructures, with scouts, instructors and training facilities. They spend many millions of dollars in overhead in the Dominican, and I'm sure they spend significant (though much smaller) amounts elsewhere in Latin America. 

The Orioles' owner has not been one to spend many of his own dollars in ways that do not immediately put talent on the field. My guess is that when teams started investing heavily in Latin American operations (in the '90s, not long after Angelos bought the team), he thought it was a fad in which too many teams were spending too much and in which his money was not well spent; there may have been a "But American" component at play, given his union background. Ten or fifteen years later, and continuing to today, the Orioles got so far behind in building an infrastructure that he was unwilling or unable to make the investment to compete effectively with them. Just a guess.

[SteveA]

4 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I don't know much about how the market for Latin American talent works, but I do know that for a lot of teams -- including the Dodgers, NYYs, and some others with visible operations and, I think, a lot of success in these signings -- the Latin American spend consists of more than signing promising young players to contracts. They have extensive infrastructures, with scouts, instructors and training facilities. They spend many millions of dollars in overhead in the Dominican, and I'm sure they spend significant (though much smaller) amounts elsewhere in Latin America. 

The Orioles' owner has not been one to spend many of his own dollars in ways that do not immediately put talent on the field. My guess is that when teams started investing heavily in Latin American operations (in the '90s, not long after Angelos bought the team), he thought it was a fad in which too many teams were spending too much and in which his money was not well spent; there may have been a "But American" component at play, given his union background. Ten or fifteen years later, and continuing to today, the Orioles got so far behind in building an infrastructure that he was unwilling or unable to make the investment to compete effectively with them. Just a guess.

Yeah, that is a point that doesn't get made.   I'm not justifying the Orioles' total ignoring of the market.   I am as opposed to it as anyone in this thread.

But a lot of people look JUST at the signing bonus amounts and say "why don't we spend that?   It's worth it if 1 in X guys works out to be a star".   But the teams that do the best put a lot of money into infrastructure you mention as well as just what you see in the signing bonus.

That may have been an investment that we just weren't willing to make at the time, and now if we just half-ass it and send a couple scouts down there we'd only be getting the leftovers that no one else wants anyway.

[spiritof66]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Yeah, that is a point that doesn't get made.   I'm not justifying the Orioles' total ignoring of the market.   I am as opposed to it as anyone in this thread.

But a lot of people look JUST at the signing bonus amounts and say "why don't we spend that?   It's worth it if 1 in X guys works out to be a star".   But the teams that do the best put a lot of money into infrastructure you mention as well as just what you see in the signing bonus.

That may have been an investment that we just weren't willing to make at the time, and now if we just half-ass it and send a couple scouts down there we'd only be getting the leftovers that no one else wants anyway.

That's my take. I have no idea whether it's right, but I haven't heard an alternative one. And to follow up on your last point, an international slot is worth more to another team (that knows what it's doing because of the investment it has made) than it is to the Orioles, so in theory there is some value created when the slot is sold, some of which the Orioles should get. The Orioles can use that money to pay for six weeks (or whatever it is) of Mark Trumbo, instead of taking a speculative bet on a few guys they don't know much about.

[Three Run Homer]

I agree that it doesn't make sense to throw big money at 16 year olds if you haven't invested in scouting the region.  But that just underscores that the O's need to invest more resources in the region, including scouting as well as signing bonuses.