It's funny

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

I didn't have to look too hard to find a game from last year where Buck put Britton into a game with one out in the 8th inning, hoping for a double play to fix the mess left by... Mychal Givens.

And, yes, Zach will be gone one day. But that day is not today, and in fact the FO just told Houston. "Keep your middling prospects because Zach Britton is 1) elite and 2) totally not damaged goods that you will have to baby. In fact, not only will we keep him but he will lead us to the postseason. We're buyers, baby."

So, was Buck babying Britton tonight? Or does he not trust Britton like he used to? If it's either, the FO's message to Houston was a lying posture.

Britton had 4 days off prior to that game. One example doesn't mean you take out a red hot relief pitcher. 

[Cumberbundy]

If ZB comes in and throws a wild pitch, Bucks arse is grarse.

[alaniee]

Givens didn't have it tonight. That was clear as the bases were loaded with 1 out.

Better to give someone a chance than to someone who has shown he doesn't have it that night.

Oh well, another blown opportunity by Buck to save the bullpen. Save it? For What? Who knows. Buck :-)

[alaniee]

1 hour ago, Cumberbundy said:

If ZB comes in and throws a wild pitch, Bucks arse is grarse.

At least it meant Buck made a change to see if that would be better. Rather than stay pat and boom Grand Slam with a pitcher who didn't have it tonight.

Oh well, just another loss to ponder.

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, alaniee said:

Givens didn't have it tonight. That was clear as the bases were loaded with 1 out.

Better to give someone a chance than to someone who has shown he doesn't have it that night.

Oh well, another blown opportunity by Buck to save the bullpen. Save it? For What? Who knows. Buck :-)

No it wasn't clear at all.   Pitchers give up hits sometimes.   It doesn't mean they don't have it.

Buck brought in one of the best relief pitchers in the major leagues to do a job -- pitch the 8th.

Are you saying he should have had someone warming to start the inning with a good, reliable reliever in?   That's kind of silly, especially when it's the guy you are going to use in the 9th.

The first two hits happened on 6 pitches.  Even if you believe that the hits are a sign of someone "losing it", rather than just major league hitters doing their job and happening to get hits off a very tough pitcher -- if you get Britton up after the two hits, he's probably not going to be ready in time to face Upton.

The idea that Britton should have been warmed and brought in the 8th is silly.   Sometimes you put a guy who is extremely qualified in to do a job and he can't get it done.   It's a shame.   But you don't panic and start warming someone else at the first sign of weakness.   You expect him to do his job.  Period.   If he has a rare failure, that sucks but it's the way it goes.  

I have seen literally hundreds of times in the game threads over the past few years where people start saying Buck should "get this pitcher out of here".   Sometimes the pitcher does implode and give up runs, but more often than not he gets the job done.   Of course people only remember the times the pitcher failed and see it as an indictment of Buck.   They forget the many times the guy settles down and gets the job done.   And they forget that we almost always have a strong bullpen in August/Sept because of the way Buck managed it all year.

[Cumberbundy]

13 minutes ago, alaniee said:

At least it meant Buck made a change to see if that would be better. Rather than stay pat and boom Grand Slam with a pitcher who didn't have it tonight.

Oh well, just another loss to ponder.

No doubt about it. It's not second guessing, different people would do things different ways & tonight Bucks decision didn't get the result we needed. These are our playoffs, we are in what amounts to a 20 game elimination tournament to advance. 

[Frobby]

I think I'm glad I had to work late last night and didn't see the game.   

[Tx Oriole]

10 hours ago, MDK02 said:

If we are losing and never have a chance to get to our closer then it doesn't matter to me who's closing. At this point, I wish we would have sold and maybe taken a little less and started to rebuild. Losing while not building for the future is the the worst and that's what is currently going on. 

So yeah, if selling Zach helped give us a better rotation or offense and gave Givens actual opportunities to close out games then I'd take those chances.

Me too. 

[Tx Oriole]

8 hours ago, alaniee said:

Givens didn't have it tonight. That was clear as the bases were loaded with 1 out.

Better to give someone a chance than to someone who has shown he doesn't have it that night.

Oh well, another blown opportunity by Buck to save the bullpen. Save it? For What? Who knows. Buck :-)

So it's Bucks fault? 

[Tx Oriole]

8 hours ago, Cumberbundy said:

No doubt about it. It's not second guessing, different people would do things different ways & tonight Bucks decision didn't get the result we needed. These are our playoffs, we are in what amounts to a 20 game elimination tournament to advance. 

Good grief the O's were already out of it. I guess I have to admire your passion and faith in the O's. Sorry I just disagree with you about the O's chances of getting to the WC. 

[tntoriole]

Exactly.  Givens has been fantastic.  Part of the problem with those who are talking about wanting Britton, either way, is that we have been totally spoiled.  First by an epic season by Britton last year that somehow established the idea that a closer NEVER gives up a run or a home run (which is an absurd expectation).  Secondly, yes I wanted Britton traded this year for all the reasons noted in other posts and I am perfectly fine with Givens or anybody else moving into that role.  If you recall, nobody was saying, hey move Zach into Tommy Hunter's role and he will turn into baseball's best closer.  And, keeping Britton still means that his role with the team will definitely end after next year at the latest.  At which point SOMEBODY else will have to close.   

It was a tough loss where an excellent reliever left a pitch a little too far and a hot hitter took advantage.    See Dennis Eckersley pitching in the World Series to Kirk Gibson in 1988 if you want to see another one. 

[bobmc]

8 hours ago, alaniee said:

Givens didn't have it tonight. That was clear as the bases were loaded with 1 out.

Better to give someone a chance than to someone who has shown he doesn't have it that night.

Oh well, another blown opportunity by Buck to save the bullpen. Save it? For What? Who knows. Buck :-)

Manager Buck Showalter on Givens: “He pitched well. He was the victim of a couple broken-bat singles to right field. Can’t really fault him for that. He made good pitches and they fisted them out over the infield where Joey can’t get to them. It’s just one of those well-placed balls. I think he threw one or two breaking balls the whole inning. That’s how good of a fastball he was carrying. Unfortunately, one got a lot of the plate there with the left fielder, Upton. But he’s been throwing as good as anybody. You put a long list of relievers together, he’s right there with them. But tonight just bit him.

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/08/upton-slam-off-givens-gives-tigers-5-2-win-over-orioles.html

[Cumberbundy]

18 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Good grief the O's were already out of it. I guess I have to admire your passion and faith in the O's. Sorry I just disagree with you about the O's chances of getting to the WC. 

 I don't think the O's are going to get the WC. I wanted to sell & I was among the first on the OH who was in "sell mode". I think we stink, but the teams we need to catch aren't particularly good. I've stated several times that we are going to need about 11 miracles & as much luck as we've ever seen in baseball to get into the playoffs. I believe in Gausman and I have some faith in Bundy, particularly with added rest, but I don't think we are particularly good offensively, defensively, or on the mound. To approach the season as a 20 game elimination is a bit desperate, I say that because we don't have any margin for error & I believe we have to be managed like its the playoffs from this point out. I don't mind leaving Givens in but we all know that Britton is a unique beast, it was a 1 run game, he hadn't pitched in a bit...I believe I'd have him ready for 6 outs if needed. I'm losing with Britton. He hasn't thrown a lot, we need him to be uniquely special, we need our few pieces that can be the best at their job to be the best in baseball for 2 months. Any lead I lose in the 8th or 9th would be with ZB on the mound if he was off the night before. He's different. You aren't going to beat my team without beating him if I can force you into that situation. 

I'm not buying playoff tickets but I'm not throwing in the towel, as a fan I just support the team & hope for the best. I'm more optimistic about the future than the present but I don't think we are chasing very good teams for a spot in October. 

 

[Cumberbundy]

6 minutes ago, bobmc said:

Manager Buck Showalter on Givens: “He pitched well. He was the victim of a couple broken-bat singles to right field. Can’t really fault him for that. He made good pitches and they fisted them out over the infield where Joey can’t get to them. It’s just one of those well-placed balls. I think he threw one or two breaking balls the whole inning. That’s how good of a fastball he was carrying. Unfortunately, one got a lot of the plate there with the left fielder, Upton. But he’s been throwing as good as anybody. You put a long list of relievers together, he’s right there with them. But tonight just bit him.

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/08/upton-slam-off-givens-gives-tigers-5-2-win-over-orioles.html

Bloops & a blast. Det had some luck on their side & their star stepped up. No shame in that.

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, Cumberbundy said:

I'm not buying playoff tickets but I'm not throwing in the towel, as a fan I just support the team & hope for the best. I'm more optimistic about the future than the present but I don't think we are chasing very good teams for a spot in October. 

 

Well said.   I don't like our odds, but I won't give up hope.   There are still twists and turns to come.