Chris Davis Has Cleared Revocable waivers

[sportsfan8703]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Does anyone still hold a  grudge against Duquette for listening to the Toronto offer? That offer was a chance for him to have full autonomy, make more money, and have more job security for him and his family. 

It's easy as Orioles fans to think he was being a traitor, but at the end of the day, who among us would not listen to a competitor who offered us a promotion and pay raise?

We should have let him walk.  Just sucks it had to happen coming off an ALCS appearance with a WS contender roster.  That offseason was a mess.  

I think DD "plays" out his contract and then Brady has to ultimately take over.  At least we'd have more cohesion.  

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We should have let him walk.  Just sucks it had to happen coming off an ALCS appearance with a WS contender roster.  That offseason was a mess.  

I think DD "plays" out his contract and then Brady has to ultimately take over.  At least we'd have more cohesion.  

The above may well happen...but my take from reading what Tony says is that MAYBE DD really is trapped here.  Like Frobby, I am over the Toronto thing and will judge DD on his tenure.  But it is clear that he does have some C0-GMS with power and authority.  I cannot fathom a circumstance where Brady as our GM makes for a good move for the future of the Orioles.  I have said that before and after some of Tony's thoughts today I do not know what the answer is but it is not Brady Anderson.

 

 

Tony,

In your opinion, given that you stated we should wait to see what happens with Buck and DD first mean that one should definitely be gone?  If they are splitting power it would seem so.  And it does seem that in that light there are some things that have happened that may have been spiteful between them....Kim especially.  Not pushing you, but the fact is regardless of whether you are a fan of DD and or Buck, or not, a bunch of people outside the organization still think things here are messed up.  I think they have improved tremendously and the record shows it...but threads like this  are frightening as a fan.

Thanks for sharing.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I don't have a grudge against him for listening, but there were some details of the way he handled it that rubbed me the wrong way.    I got over it a long time ago, and judge him solely by whether he's made good decisions for the team.    Of course, per the discussion above, it's not always clear when he is calling the shots.    

In what way? I honestly don't remember.

[Frobby]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

In what way? I honestly don't remember.

I don't remember all the details either.    But he sort of played it coy with the media, and allowed the issue to linger long after Angelos had made it clear that Duquette wasn't going anywhere.   In any event, as I've said, I'm over it.   I've never bought into the narrative offered by some people that we had a lousy offseason in 2014-15 because Duquette was distracted and didn't have his heart in it.     He took some calculated risks that didn't work out very well. That happens sometimes.    

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, foxfield said:

The above may well happen...but my take from reading what Tony says is that MAYBE DD really is trapped here.  Like Frobby, I am over the Toronto thing and will judge DD on his tenure.  But it is clear that he does have some C0-GMS with power and authority.  I cannot fathom a circumstance where Brady as our GM makes for a good move for the future of the Orioles.  I have said that before and after some of Tony's thoughts today I do not know what the answer is but it is not Brady Anderson.

 

 

Tony,

In your opinion, given that you stated we should wait to see what happens with Buck and DD first mean that one should definitely be gone?  If they are splitting power it would seem so.  And it does seem that in that light there are some things that have happened that may have been spiteful between them....Kim especially.  Not pushing you, but the fact is regardless of whether you are a fan of DD and or Buck, or not, a bunch of people outside the organization still think things here are messed up.  I think they have improved tremendously and the record shows it...but threads like this  are frightening as a fan.

Thanks for sharing.

I'm a fan of the Orioles, and not in any "faction's" side. I know you said earlier that you can't tell if I was just "spouting off" but I rarely say something about what's going on unless I know something. I also will normally caveat things with, "I don't have any inside information on this, but my opinion is ...." if I don't have any inside info.

I will honestly not be surprised if neither are fired. Angelos doesn't like paying for people to go away. Most likely they will continue on in the same fashion until the contracts are up, then it will be interesting to see if Buck completes his ultimate mission. 

It does suck as a fan to know this goes on, but honestly, some of this stuff goes on in other organizations as well. Maybe not the manger/Gm dynamic like here, but factions and people looking out for themselves. I don't think these political games are specific to the Orioles alone.  

I'm honestly interested to see how this shakes out and if it could be changed by how the team finishes this year. If the Orioles make the playoffs despite all the things that have gone wrong, how would you get rid of DD? Although this team has not made a World Series, it has been .500 or better in the last five season after 14 season under .500. The team has played meaningful baseball in September every year Duquette has been here (except maybe 2014).

As a field general, the organization can do much worse than Buck who as field manager alone is one of the best in the game in my opinion. Some how, despite all of this, the team has found a way to stay relevant with this current combination. It's really a fascinating situation that could probably easily be a reality show if camera's were ever allowed. LOL

[Plutarch]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Does anyone still hold a  grudge against Duquette for listening to the Toronto offer? That offer was a chance for him to have full autonomy, make more money, and have more job security for him and his family. 

It's easy as Orioles fans to think he was being a traitor, but at the end of the day, who among us would not listen to a competitor who offered us a promotion and pay raise?

Players and coaches force their way out of existing contracts all of the time.  Front office people should not be viewed/judged/treated any differently, be that positive or negative.

[Tx Oriole]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We should have let him walk.  Just sucks it had to happen coming off an ALCS appearance with a WS contender roster.  That offseason was a mess.  

I think DD "plays" out his contract and then Brady has to ultimately take over.  At least we'd have more cohesion.  

You sure we'd have more cohesion with Brady the GM? 

[foxfield]

Thanks for the above Tony.  I know it is a fine line but this is quality quality stuff.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Most likely they will continue on in the same fashion until the contracts are up, then it will be interesting to see if Buck completes his ultimate mission. 

Wow, that's a question-begging statement if ever there was one.   Is the "ultimate mission":

1.   To get rid of Duquette and put someone more aligned with Buck in his place?

2.   For Buck to become the combined GM/manager?

3.   For Buck to become GM and hand over the manager's job to someone else (like John Russell)?

4.   Something else?

In any event, I have a couple of observations.    First, it seems to me that by entertaining Toronto's overtures, Dan weakened his influence with PA and it's somewhat understandable if PA didn't want to rely solely on Dan's judgment after that.   Of course, for all I know, this problem may have pre-dated Dan being contacted by Toronto, and may have been one of the reasons why Dan entertained those overtures.

Second, putting this issue completely to one side, I think PA needs to fish or cut bait with these two this winter.    I don't want Dan making decisions about what to do for the long term good of the team if he doesn't know if he's going to continue here after 2018.    And Buck deserves a new managerial contract, if that's what he wants to do; he shouldn't be left twisting in the wind for next season like Dusty Baker is right now.   If Buck wants more than that -- the GM's seat, or more influence, then PA needs to decide if Buck is worth it.     But having both the GM and the manager playing out the string without any commitments on either side beyond 2018 is a recipe for disaster.     This needs resolution the minute this season ends.   

[Tony-OH]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Wow, that's a question-begging statement if ever there was one.   Is the "ultimate mission":

1.   To get rid of Duquette and put someone more aligned with Buck in his place?

2.   For Buck to become the combined GM/manager?

3.   For Buck to become GM and hand over the manager's job to someone else (like John Russell)?

4.   Something else?

In any event, I have a couple of observations.    First, it seems to me that by entertaining Toronto's overtures, Dan weakened his influence with PA and it's somewhat understandable if PA didn't want to rely solely on Dan's judgment after that.   Of course, for all I know, this problem may have pre-dated Dan being contacted by Toronto, and may have been one of the reasons why Dan entertained those overtures.

Second, putting this issue completely to one side, I think PA needs to fish or cut bait with these two this winter.    I don't want Dan making decisions about what to do for the long term good of the team if he doesn't know if he's going to continue here after 2018.    And Buck deserves a new managerial contract, if that's what he wants to do; he shouldn't be left twisting in the wind for next season like Dusty Baker is right now.   If Buck wants more than that -- the GM's seat, or more influence, then PA needs to decide if Buck is worth it.     But having both the GM and the manager playing out the string without any commitments on either side beyond 2018 is a recipe for disaster.     This needs resolution the minute this season ends.   

I agree. But this is not how Angelos works. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree. But this not how Angelos works. 

Sigh...I know.

[El Gordo]

11 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Angelos may have made the money available, but it was under the advisement of the other GMs in the organization, not Duquette who wasn't going to pay him even close to that amount.

I stick with my opinion that Buck will become the GM and name his manager. No other prominent baseball man would want the job with PA. And PA wouldn't hire some young wunderkind type. 

[TouchemAll]

I like Buck as the manager, but as a GM I would predict disaster.

[SteveA]

6 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

I still advocate canning Duquette and Showalter after this season. Time to move on with a new vision set by Ben Cherington if we are lucky enough to get him.

If the leadership dysfunction in the warehouse is the way Tony describes it, why would Cherington even consider the job?

[interloper]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:18 AM, Tony-OH said:

You can believe any narrative you want, but the Warehouse is basically a Game of Thrones episode without the dragons and violence. haha

And the fact that the front office is this way is ultimately Angelos' fault, no?