Cafardo: Showalter losing the clubhouse

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Weren't four of them against Jake given up in one game to Trea Turner and got the catcher fired?

 

Lester's virtual inability to throw to first allows larger leads for baserunners which is going to counteract any advantage he might have in getting the ball in quickly.

The catcher got fired for mouthing off about how the stolen bases were Arrieta's fault.    And it's just a fact that he's poor at holding runners and slow to the plate.    I'd still gladly have his overall performance from 2014-17, but he does rank near the bottom at holding runners for a reason.   

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

It was actually 7 stolen Bases in one game which ended up in a loss for Jake and when the catcher complained "Publicly" about Jake's lack of TTTP, he (Montereo) was released.

Seven total but Turner stole four correct?

I'd say that one game goes a long way in explaining the numbers.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The catcher got fired for mouthing off about how the stolen bases were Arrieta's fault.    And it's just a fact that he's poor at holding runners and slow to the plate.    I'd still gladly have his overall performance from 2014-17, but he does rank near the bottom at holding runners for a reason.   

The catcher also had pretty much the worst pop times in the league as well right?

Worse than "Can't catch for Buck" Sisco.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And it's not just 2017.    Same was true last year.

I don't blame Matusz's downfall on TTTP.    If that's all it was, it wouldn't affect his bases empty performance, which went from .707 OPSA in 2010 to .956 in 2011.   I'm not sure what happened with Matusz, but TTTP was only a small piece of the puzzle.   

I'm not about to blame anything on anything. 

But we do know they changed his delivery, he pulled his oblique, and he was never the same.

No idea if any of those things caused any of those other things.

 

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The catcher also had pretty much the worst pop times in the league as well right?

Worse than "Can't catch for Buck" Sisco.

In his career, Arrieta has allowed runners to steal successfully 82% of the time.    That's very poor.   It's not just Miguel Montero.   

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In his career, Arrieta has allowed runners to steal successfully 82% of the time.    That's very poor.   It's not just Miguel Montero.   

Sure it is.

It is also a great example of why stolen bases aren't that big a deal.

[thezeroes]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure it is.

It is also a great example of why stolen bases aren't that big a deal.

The Cubs with Lackey, Arrieta, and Lester had one of the worst SB% allowed league wide.  In games which had two or more stolen bases in them against their pitchers the Cubs had a record of 12 Wins and 21 Losses.  Coincidence, I think not.

If stolen bases had nothing to do with the wins and losses than why the difference in the Cubs win % when allowing 2 or more SB's in a game??

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

The Cubs with Lackey, Arrieta, and Lester had one of the worst SB% allowed league wide.  In games which had two or more stolen bases in them against their pitchers the Cubs had a record of 12 Wins and 21 Losses.  Coincidence, I think not.

If stolen bases had nothing to do with the wins and losses than why the difference in the Cubs win % when allowing 2 or more SB's in a game??

Hey look it's something I never said!

Hmm I don't know, maybe because they allowed more baserunners in those games?

Could be a lot of factors.

If the Cubs are so easy to run against and do so poorly in these games why did it only happen 33 times?

Obviously less stolen bases are better than more stolen bases.  No one is arguing otherwise.

What I think is that Buck places too much emphasis on that aspect of the game.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not at all.

But I don't think stolen bases are worth worrying about to the degree that Buck seems to worry about them.

I don't see a need to publicly dress down my young relief pitchers over it for instance.  Or significantly modify a top draft pick's mechanics over it.

I think it's especially odd that we worry SO MUCH about stolen bases, as if giving them up is really detrimental to the team.   Yet we don't try to steal much ourselves.

So if giving up stolen bases is bad, getting them must be GOOD, right?   You would think a team that thinks giving up stolen bases is the worst thing in the world would logically want to steal a lot of bases, because stealing must really help you win if giving up steals hurts you that much.

[thezeroes]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hey look it's something I never said!

Hmm I don't know, maybe because they allowed more baserunners in those games?

Could be a lot of factors.

If the Cubs are so easy to run against and do so poorly in these games why did it only happen 33 times?

Obviously less stolen bases are better than more stolen bases.  No one is arguing otherwise.

What I think is that Buck places too much emphasis on that aspect of the game.

I think he puts emphasis the TTTP when a pitcher is out of the norm  (more than 1.5 seconds) with theirs.  The pitcher in question was not with the ballclub in ST which is when these things get worked on.  I believe it should have been handled better but I will bet that Castro now knows that an improvement in that area is needed as does the entire number od pitchers within the organization. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, thezeroes said:

I think he puts emphasis the TTTP when a pitcher is out of the norm  (more than 1.5 seconds) with theirs.  The pitcher in question was not with the ballclub in ST which is when these things get worked on.  I believe it should have been handled better but I will bet that Castro now knows that an improvement in that area is needed as does the entire number od pitchers within the organization. 

I think when you have guys that are deficient major league pitchers in a number of areas TTTP is not the facet you should be harping on.

[thezeroes]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think it's especially odd that we worry SO MUCH about stolen bases, as if giving them up is really detrimental to the team.   Yet we don't try to steal much ourselves.

So if giving up stolen bases is bad, getting them must be GOOD, right?   You would think a team that thinks giving up stolen bases is the worst thing in the world would logically want to steal a lot of bases, because stealing must really help you win if giving up steals hurts you that much.

If the opposing pitcher is below 1.5 seconds with his TTTP and the catcher has a POP time of under 1.85 then the battery can/will throw out all but the elite baserunners when the average time to second base is 3.3 to 3.4 seconds for baserunners.  Given that the management of the Orioles know the speed to second of their baserunners and the TTTP + POP times of the opposing battery , why would you give any baserunner a green light when the numbers say they will be thrown out by a wide margin.

[thezeroes]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think when you have guys that are deficient major league pitchers in a number of areas TTTP is not the facet you should be harping on.

Agree to disagree then.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, thezeroes said:

Agree to disagree then.

 

So you would rather they get the ball home fast instead of, I don't know, command their pitches?

All right.

[SteveA]

12 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

If the opposing pitcher is below 1.5 seconds with his TTTP and the catcher has a POP time of under 1.85 then the battery can/will throw out all but the elite baserunners when the average time to second base is 3.3 to 3.4 seconds for baserunners.  Given that the management of the Orioles know the speed to second of their baserunners and the TTTP + POP times of the opposing battery , why would you give any baserunner a green light when the numbers say they will be thrown out by a wide margin.

Well then, if stolen bases are as helpful to winning as you say, we should make it a priority to get faster baserunners.

Yet we clearly do not.