Roy Halladay Died

[Flash- bd]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It certainly means he had the ability to try and fix it. 

Again, not the way drug problems work. You have no idea in what stage of the problem he was, very likely he was in a denial phase/didn't recognize he had a problem in the first place. 

 

This (below) is fair. But I don't see any reason that should stop people from celebrating his life or why it should make him a bad person. It makes him a person who made a mistake. 

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He intentionally got behind the stick when he knew he was impaired.  Yea, I'll hold that against him.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

Again, not the way drug problems work. You have no idea in what stage of the problem he was, very likely he was in a denial phase/didn't recognize he had a problem in the first place. 

 

This (below) is fair. But I don't see any reason that should stop people from celebrating his life or why it should make him a bad person. It makes him a person who made a mistake. 

Retiring his number and awarding him a patch is, in my view, condoning his actions.  I'm fine with individuals doing what they like, I am not fine with MLB doing it. 

[OFFNY]

o

 

The drug/amphetamine issue is only an exacerbating factor to what Halladay was doing, it isn't the main issue (of which Halladay's behavior has no defense for.)

 

He died because he absolutely insisted on flying in an extremely dangerous manner (the plane was specifically built to fly in the hot-dogging manner in which Halladay was flying.) His wife begged him not to do it, but he wasn't having any of it. To me, that goes beyond just being human/flawed/imperfect. That is extremely arrogant and selfish, to say the least. 

 

Yes, we're all human, and we're all flawed. We're not all 40 year-old men with a wife and 2 kids that intentionally flies an airplane in an extremely dangerous/hot-dogging manner that kills themselves while doing so.

 

o

[Flash- bd]

15 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

He died because he absolutely insisted on flying in an extremely dangerous manner (the plane was specifically built to fly in the hot-dogging manner in which Halladay was flying.) His wife begged him not to do it, but he wasn't having any of it. To me, that goes beyond just being human/flawed/imperfect. That is extremely arrogant and selfish, to say the least. 

 

Yes, we're all human, and we're all flawed. We're not all 40 year-old men with a wife and 2 kids that intentionally flies an airplane in an extremely dangerous/hot-dogging manner that kills themselves while doing so.

 

To me that sounds like the decisions of someone extremely high on drugs, especially amphetamines. Which he was. So I wouldn't say the drug use is an exacerbating factor, but rather a causal factor to that behaviour. 

[OFFNY]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:05 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

The drug/amphetamine issue is only an exacerbating factor to what Halladay was doing, it isn't the main issue (of which Halladay's behavior has no defense for.)

 

He died because he absolutely insisted on flying in an extremely dangerous manner (the plane was specifically built to fly in the hot-dogging manner in which Halladay was flying.) His wife begged him not to do it, but he wasn't having any of it. To me, that goes beyond just being human/flawed/imperfect. That is extremely arrogant and selfish, to say the least. 

 

Yes, we're all human, and we're all flawed. We're not all 40 year-old men with a wife and 2 kids that intentionally flies an airplane in an extremely dangerous/hot-dogging manner that kills themselves while doing so.

 

o

 

 

On 2/12/2018 at 7:21 PM, Flash- bd said:

 

To me, that sounds like the decisions of someone extremely high on drugs, especially amphetamines. Which he was. So I wouldn't say the drug use is an exacerbating factor, but rather a causal factor to that behaviour. 

 

o

 

Using being high as an explanation to purchase a plane, and then fly it in a manner as to imitate Evel Knievel is a first.

Buying and flying an airplane (as far as I know) isn't something that one just gets up and decides to do one day on the spur of the moment. It takes a lot of planning, practice, and much time is involved. What Halladay did in purchasing that particular plane and flying it in the manner in which he did was very much a premeditated decision. If he was high on the day that he crashed it and died, that makes what he did even more appalling than what I had originally thought when I first read the articles, it does not explain his decision(s) to do what he did.

 

I have a brother who once had such a bad alcoholic blackout that when he went to retrieve his car the next day, one of the wheels was completely worn down to the metal surroundings, with just a shard of rubber remaining ....... so he had clearly driven the car quite a long way after the tire had gotten flat without even realizing it before he managed to somehow park it on the side of the street.

That scared him so much that he immediately drove the car to the nearest junkyard, handed over the title deed to the attendant, and told him to keep it.

He also immediately quit drinking that day, but that was actually secondary in terms of societal responsibility. He didn't even want to tempt fate by promising himself that he would not do it again. Several years later, he eventually trusted his sobriety enough to purchase and drive another car, but his decision on that day to immediately take his car to the junkyard and rid himself of it was as impressive as almost anything else that he had done in his life.

 

o

[Redskins Rick]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

It certainly means he had the ability to try and fix it. 

 

I think I can.

Why should he get a free pass because his extremely reckless behavior didn't have as reaching a consequence as the other listed?  It wasn't as if he took steps to avoid others being hurt. 

He intentionally got behind the stick when he knew he was impaired.  Yea, I'll hold that against him.

Just like others would hold it against him if he hadn't been a famous former baseball player.

Its a sickness.

Last month I lost my nephew to his battle with opiates. Thankfully, he didn't take anybody else with him, because of his bad choices. But, they did find him in the car, parked in a parking lot, and all the evidence that he had recently shot up.

As with any addition, porn, alcohol, pain meds, sleeping pills/wake me up pills, etc.

You have to admit you have hit rock bottom and you have to have the desire to turn your life around. No rehab in the world is going to help, unless you truly want help.

Until then rehab, is just something to keep you out of jail and as soon as you are back in the free, you are back to your normal activities.

[Frobby]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Retiring his number and awarding him a patch is, in my view, condoning his actions.  I'm fine with individuals doing what they like, I am not fine with MLB doing it. 

I don’t condone what Halladay did. Retiring his number is a no-brainer, however.    That relates to what he did on the field.   I’m more ambivalent about the patch, but I don’t interpret it as a “reward,” exactly.     It’s for the fans more than for him.    

[OFFNY]

15 hours ago, Bucked said:

 

You have no idea what Roy or his Wife were feeling. His wife didn't like the plane, she apparently had no idea about the supposed drug abuse. You know nothing, just like the rest of us.

 

o

 

We don't have to know what he was feeling, anymore than we necessarily had to know what Jose Fernandez or Yordano Ventura were feeling when they got themselves killed.

It was obvious what Halladay's wife was feeling in regard to him flying because she begged him not to fly that particular plane, although that is not particularly relevant to the discussions about Halladay's actions.

He bought a plane that was made to fly dangerously, and that's the manner in which he flew it ........ which got him killed.

 

In addition to all of that, the autopsy showed drugs in his system. All of that adds up to Halladay getting killed as a result of him being extremely irresponsible. The discussion/topic wasn't about whether or not we are privy to the emotionally intimate details of Halladay's relationship with his wife and/or whether or not she knew about his drug use, it was about what he did which got himself killed. Can of Corn suggested that it was therefore inappropriate have a patch made in his honor because he felt that that would be condoning what he did, while others suggested that was not necessarily true, that wearing a patch in his honor was strictly a compliment to the great pitching career that he had, and not necessarily a symbol of their condoning his (ultimately) fatal actions.

 

o

[Redskins Rick]

Vote him in the HOF, based on his on the field career, heck yeah.

But, no a patch in his honor, IMO and I am totally with CoC on this point.

[backwardsk]

https://apple.news/Aag826wiNSNaFToqFvt2_nA

[Redskins Rick]

wow, what an article.