Why not Lucroy?

[Just Regular]

I know Joseph rated well on framing last year, but he's a slightly built guy entering his age-32 season who has never started a full season.  For purposes of Lucroy speculating, it guesses Buck is iffy about entrusting Sisco with the starter job, or even half of it, in 2018 because of defense.

If I look at AL catchers by projected wOBA on Fangraphs projections and exclude Sisco, I see:

Top Third - Sanchez 353, <Lucroy 338>, Martin 324, B McCann 322, Chirinos 322, Zunino 316

Middle Third - S Perez 315, Ramos 312, Castillo 310, Castro 304, J McCann 302

Bottom Third - R Perez 300, Vazquez 296, Maxwell 294, Joseph 280, Maldonado 275

Maldonado's coming off a Gold Glove season.  I hope we're at least fulling vetting Lucroy to see if there's anything left in the tank, because he could transform near league-worst into near league-best if he can still be even 85% of his old self.  I believe Joseph is a moderate defensive asset at catcher, but I'm going to be really anxious if he's our #1 going in.

[ScGO's]

1 year 5 million and I"m sold.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

"Why no Lucroy?"

Simple. The Orioles (or atleast Buck), likes Joseph for his defense, especially dealing with the pitchers they have now.

The Orioles are also high on Sisco and Wynns as the backup for Joseph, along with being the "catchers of the future," or atleast until they think Sisco can no longer produce behind the plate.

Then they picked up a cheap, low risk option with Susac as a "worst case scenario" person. They didn't really want someone who would compete for the top spot and bump Joseph, Sisco, and Wynns back while trying to build up the last two. Instead, they got someone who, worst case, could easily be DFA'ed or stashed in Norfolk as a backup, and a best, could fill in for a few games if/when one of the top 2 get injured for a few games.

They also have one of their favorite "stop gaps" in Perez, while Pena went elsewhere.

IF the Orioles do sign another catcher, it won't be a "top tier" one. Maybe an AAA or someone like that who gets DFA'ed or cut towards the end, just as more depth instead of as a "potential starter."

[jamalshw]

I understand the idea of not signing a catcher because they like Joseph and they hope Sisco forces his way on the roster this year...but with Lucroy's market dried up, I think the Orioles should absolutely go after him. He's a great defensive catcher (or has that reputation) and he and Joseph would make a nice tandem. That allows Sisco to work on defense again at Triple-A and he can come up if one of the two goes down with an injury or he can come up in September as the third catcher.

I'm not convinced the Orioles like Sisco's defense too much and wouldn't be surprised if they ultimately move him out from behind the plate.

[Enjoy Terror]

I’d rather them trot out Lucroy/Joseph than Joseph/Sisco. I love having prospects and giving them chances but if you can get Lucroy on a cheap one year deal he makes the offense a lot better. Sisco’s time will come; he’s not some can’t miss prospect by any means.

[Beef Supreme]

I favored signing Alex Avila all along. Since the Orioles are "going for it," this is no time to be dickin around with Sisco on the squad. They have the money. He's been a better career hitter in BA, OBA and SP than Castillo, on whom they spent $8MM last year. Might be able to sign Lucroy for $2/13MM -- $6MM this year and player option of $7MM or maybe something even cheaper. And I don't remember anyone ever raving about Castillo's defense (except for a drunk Rick Dempsey after one game) but Lucroy on the other hand... https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jonathan-lucroy-is-back-in-the-best-catcher-conversation/ (from June 6, 2016)

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I’d rather them trot out Lucroy/Joseph than Joseph/Sisco. I love having prospects and giving them chances but if you can get Lucroy on a cheap one year deal he makes the offense a lot better. Sisco’s time will come; he’s not some can’t miss prospect by any means.

I don't see where adding a 32 year old catcher with a career OPS+ of 108 makes the offense a lot better.

Just don't see where he would be getting enough at bats to make a significant difference.

Maybe a bit better.

[Dark Helmet]

33 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't see where adding a 32 year old catcher with a career OPS+ of 108 makes the offense a lot better.

Just don't see where he would be getting enough at bats to make a significant difference.

Maybe a bit better.

He has a career OBP around .340. He doesn't have to be a slugger if he keeps his BA around .270 and he gets on base. Not only that, he's a very good defensive C. No way should Joseph deter them from signing Lucroy if the price is right.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

He has a career OBP around .340. He doesn't have to be a slugger if he keeps his BA around .270 and he gets on base. Not only that, he's a very good defensive C. No way should Joseph deter them from signing Lucroy if the price is right.

I wasn't saying his offense wouldn't be an improvement over Joseph.  I was questing how much on an impact said improvement would have over the course of the season.  I think it would be more on the marginal side than the significant side.

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

He has a career OBP around .340. He doesn't have to be a slugger if he keeps his BA around .270 and he gets on base. Not only that, he's a very good defensive C. No way should Joseph deter them from signing Lucroy if the price is right.

I agree, this team lacks OBP and should take it any way they can get it.  Lucroy, IIRC, not a plodder on the basepaths, either.

That said, I think this year is mostly about getting Cisco up to speed.  Joseph will start as OD catcher but if Cisco can hit and provide adequate defense I think you'll see a platoon partway through the season with Cisco probably starting more as the season progresses.  

[Tx Oriole]

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I agree, this team lacks OBP and should take it any way they can get it.  Lucroy, IIRC, not a plodder on the basepaths, either.

That said, I think this year is mostly about getting Cisco up to speed.  Joseph will start as OD catcher but if Cisco can hit and provide adequate defense I think you'll see a platoon partway through the season with Cisco probably starting more as the season progresses.  

Maybe so.

[Dark Helmet]

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't saying his offense wouldn't be an improvement over Joseph.  I was questing how much on an impact said improvement would have over the course of the season.  I think it would be more on the marginal side than the significant side.

I

 

39 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I wasn't saying his offense wouldn't be an improvement over Joseph.  I was questing how much on an impact said improvement would have over the course of the season.  I think it would be more on the marginal side than the significant side.

I think it would give us 2 solid options as opposed to Joseph and whoever.  A duo of Lucroy and Joseph I think overall would be a good situation at C. And you won't lose much defensively when one spells the other.

[tropicos]

If we were trotting out both Hardy & Joseph everyday, than Lucroy's OBP would be a welcome boost. However, in our current state, I don't mind one very subpar hitter in the lineup who provides very good defense at catcher.  Defense & pitch-calling/framing is too important at catcher, especially with our main weakness coming from the starting pitching squad.  Castillo provided plenty of offense at C last year, didn't help much. Let Sisco bat if offense at C is a concern. I don't think Lucroy is much of an improvement, if any at all. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I

 

I think it would give us 2 solid options as opposed to Joseph and whoever.  A duo of Lucroy and Joseph I think overall would be a good situation at C. And you won't lose much defensively when one spells the other.

I think Sisco's power plays better in the majors and he could easily end up a 108 OPS+ guy with decent on base skills.

I also don't  want upwards of five slots on the 40 man roster going to catchers.

[weams]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think Sisco's power plays better in the majors and he could easily end up a 108 OPS+ guy with decent on base skills.

I also don't  want upwards of five slots on the 40 man roster going to catchers.

I'm not a Joseph fan, though I hear he is a fine fellow. I used to be. But the bloom is off him for me.