Cobb only thread

[El Gordo]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

A seemingly unthinkable scenario to most of us, probably, but something not at all outside the realm of possibility. Dan was recently quoted at Fanfest saying he appreciates the support from PA, while I believe he stopped short of saying "I'd like to be back". 

What if Dan signs on for another 3 years? Despite Brady seemingly looming weirdly in the background in whatever capacity his nebulous non-job exists in.

How would you feel? What would that mean for the organization going forward? What if Buck was also signed? What if he wasn't? Does this season's success or lack thereof play a role?

I'd be fine with Dan staying on because we are not going to get anyone better unless it's Buck.

[weams]

12 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

More than or different from pretty much every other ML team? I've never thought that, but maybe so,

More than the Orioles ever did. Back in the Kevin Millar, Aubrey Huff era. And Jake was the only pitcher I ever saw run. 

[interloper]

7 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I'd be fine with Dan staying on because we are not going to get anyone better unless it's Buck.

I mean, this is a take that not many folks seem to consider. 

Can the Orioles do better than Dan Duquette at GM? 

Is the Dan/Buck dynamic so toxic at this point that we'd take any other duo who appear to be on the same page over them?

I think the answer to both questions is probably "no".

[tntoriole]

29 minutes ago, interloper said:

I mean, this is a take that not many folks seem to consider. 

Can the Orioles do better than Dan Duquette at GM? 

Is the Dan/Buck dynamic so toxic at this point that we'd take any other duo who appear to be on the same page over them?

I think the answer to both questions is probably "no".

Absolutely they can do better.  And will.  Plenty of outstanding assistant GMs who would kill for one of these jobs.   

I believe Angelos will announce sometime later this year he is turning over active ownership decisions about the team to his sons and let them hire the next leadership team. .  

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

Absolutely they can do better.  And will.  Plenty of outstanding assistant GMs who would kill for one of these jobs.   

I believe Angelos will announce sometime later this year he is turning over active ownership decisions about the team to his sons and let them hire the next leadership team. .  

That is an interesting idea, but self made men that have had the success that Peter as had generally  hang on to power as long as the can.

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That is an interesting idea, but self made men that have had the success that Peter as had generally  hang on to power as long as the can.

Perhaps.  But Peter’s business has always been his law firm.  He would still be the managing founder  there and give his sons free rein with the team’s next phase.   89 is 89 and if I am his sons and care about him, then maybe they would be pushing for him to cut back just a bit, let them take this  and take the heat.

We shall see. 

[El Gordo]

30 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Absolutely they can do better.  And will.  Plenty of outstanding assistant GMs who would kill for one of these jobs.   

I believe Angelos will announce sometime later this year he is turning over active ownership decisions about the team to his sons and let them hire the next leadership team. .  

If PA were to hire any of these guys and he probably wouldn't, they would have an even tighter straight  jacket than Dan got.

[backwardsk]

24 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Absolutely they can do better.  And will.  Plenty of outstanding assistant GMs who would kill for one of these jobs.   

I believe Angelos will announce sometime later this year he is turning over active ownership decisions about the team to his sons and let them hire the next leadership team. .  

How does this get measured?

At worst, DD will have produced a winning record in four of his seven seasons with three playoff appearances.  From some, he gets very little credit while the majority of credit goes to AM.  For some, DD has neglected the farm system too much and leaves his successor with little. Many think we are on the verge of another trip to the wilderness.

If the next GM sees four years of losing and gets fired, is it because DD left the organization in such poor shape that they had no chance of success?

If the next GM manages to win with Beckham, Bundy, Mancini, Mountcastle, Sisco, Hays, Stewart, Hall, Harvey, etc, does DD get any credit leaving behind talent?

What does success look like for the next GM?

 

[Dark Helmet]

No GM can succeed here with the restraints Dan faces. Not allowed to sign SP worth a Damn, forced to deal with the owners buddies, forced to spend ion the owners favorite players, while being hamstrung to add additional talent.

I haven't been a big DD supporter and I've had my issues with Buck. But I have enjoyed the stability at GM and manager and unless they'e bringing in Theo Epstein and giving him full control, I'm content with both Dan and Buck returning.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, backwardsk said:

How does this get measured?

At worst, DD will have produced a winning record in four of his seven seasons with three playoff appearances.  From some, he gets very little credit while the majority of credit goes to AM.  For some, DD has neglected the farm system too much and leaves his successor with little. Many think we are on the verge of another trip to the wilderness.

If the next GM sees four years of losing and gets fired, is it because DD left the organization in such poor shape that they had no chance of success?

If the next GM manages to win with Beckham, Bundy, Mancini, Mountcastle, Sisco, Hays, Stewart, Hall, Harvey, etc, does DD get any credit leaving behind talent?

What does success look like for the next GM?

 

I think you have to look at the first 2 years as still in large part due to the previous GM unless a complete teardown rebuild is undertaken.  If the next GM comes in to a team that has finished last two years in a row, has lost Manny, Zach, Adam, etc. to free agent and has to rebuild from there, then they will be in a different situation than what DD inherited and will be judged accordingly.   I am not near as confident in the players you mentioned as being good enough to win the AL East any time soon.  I think we will have to be drafting near the top for several years to get the talent back up because of not strategically trading our assets. 

But more than that, I want a GM who makes  improvements actually using a vision and plan and not just someone who goes year to year. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Absolutely they can do better.  And will.  Plenty of outstanding assistant GMs who would kill for one of these jobs.   

I believe Angelos will announce sometime later this year he is turning over active ownership decisions about the team to his sons and let them hire the next leadership team. .  

Yes, I seem to remember them lining up for the gig the last time we hired a GM. Sadly, Dan was at the top of the list and highly coveted and sought after so Angelos gave him the nod. Small wonder he chose us when he had so many options.

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, El Gordo said:

If PA were to hire any of these guys and he probably wouldn't, they would have an even tighter straight  jacket than Dan got.

I think there will be a change at the ownership level within the next year with either the sons taking over (most likely)or the team being put on the market (much less likely).  

[El Gordo]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

I think there will be a change at the ownership level within the next year with either the sons taking over (most likely)or the team being put on the market (much less likely).  

As long as he is alive he will have the final say in who the GM is. So I'm guessing he ,makes it through this year when we have to name a new one. Whomever inherits the team will have his shot few years down the line.

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Yes, I seem to remember them lining up for the gig the last time we hired a GM. Sadly, Dan was at the top of the list and highly coveted and sought after so Angelos gave him the nod. Small wonder he chose us when he had so many options.

30 GM jobs in the entire country and you think nobody will be interested.  Even from  assistants who have spent their entire career trying to get to that level.  I disagree. Completely.   Plus the argument presumes that time will just continue to stand still forever for this owner forever and ever and ever and that it will never change, never, never, never.   I think that is pretty unlikely. 

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

As long as he is alive he will have the final say in who the GM is. So I'm guessing he ,makes it through this year when we have to name a new one. Whomever inherits the team will have his shot few years down the line.

We shall see.  You heard it here first.   Suppose he has a major illness but is still alive?  Will he hire the GM then?   Do you think he and his heirs have not considered that sometimes things happen to 89 year old individuals?  I think they have probably talked about it a time or two.  I have certainly  talked about it with my similarly aged father.