Trey Mancini is not an outfielder

[LA2]

6 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

This, and last year was one of the first times Mancini was in the outfield during his professional career, and he finished stat-wise as a slightly below average LF'er: -1 DRS and -8.5 UZR/150.  Considering defense is not a strong suit of many LF'ers across the board, I'm content to let him learn the position over the next year or so.  It's not like Mancini's defense is defining us as a competitor versus a pretender.  I'm honestly shocked this was a thread.  

We generally agree.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, LA2 said:

With some players, like Trumbo, it's very clear he just can't man the position. Mancini doesn't appear that way to me and he's young and intelligent and works hard, which go a lot further in learning to play decent D than in developing certain other skills, like stealing bases. He did well last year as a novice moved off of first base and some of the more standard stats (e.g. assists, RF) both this year and last place him among the leaders in leftfield. Although I can't point to any great omen of his future out there, I have no reason yet to believe he can't improve.

Defense peaks early.  I don't see any reason to think that a 26 year old is going to improve as he gets older.  Maybe if he were showing progress from last year to this year I could see your point but he isn't any better this year.

 

[El_Duderino]

No way to sugarcoat it. Probably the slowest outfield alignment in the big leagues out there for the Os tonight.

[wildbillhiccup]

15 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

I don't agree that Trumbo really handcuffed this franchise. And I'm not entirely sure that Trumbo was a Brady/Angelos thing. 

Davis I'll agree with.

As for moves that are easily fixable, I don't think signings like Ubaldo are easily fixable. Neither was Gallardo, honestly. We got lucky that somebody took him for a single year (albeit expensive) of a one dimensional player like Seth Smith. But it's hard to "fix" losing draft picks, too. Moves like those in addition with all the others set a franchise back years.

Davis is certainly a major problem, regardless.

Chris Davis' contract is arguably the worst contract ever given to a player in MLB history. Heads need to roll for that terrible call. 

[atomic]

19 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

This, and last year was one of the first times Mancini was in the outfield during his professional career, and he finished stat-wise as a slightly below average LF'er: -1 DRS and -8.5 UZR/150.  Considering defense is not a strong suit of many LF'ers across the board, I'm content to let him learn the position over the next year or so.  It's not like Mancini's defense is defining us as a competitor versus a pretender.  I'm honestly shocked this was a thread.  

It is moves like this that make us a bad team.   And the game I have seen Mancini has looked terrible out there.  He just doesn't have outfielder abilities.  You might not care about defense but I do.  I just looked up his defensive WAR and baseball reference says -1.2.  I don't know if any corner outfielder is worse than that but I find it hard to believe.  For a full season on that pace he would be close to negative 5 defense WAR.  It would be better just to have Gentry out there every day even if he:doesn't hit.  Better situation is just sit Davis and move Mancini/Trumbo to first and DH.  

[25 Nuggets]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Defense peaks early.  I don't see any reason to think that a 26 year old is going to improve as he gets older.  Maybe if he were showing progress from last year to this year I could see your point but he isn't any better this year.

 

Truth.  It is extremely rare for a defender to improve past his mid 20s.  Much more so, actually, than it is for a batter to improve past age 30.

[25 Nuggets]

51 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

No way to sugarcoat it. Probably the slowest outfield alignment in the big leagues out there for the Os tonight.

Not the first time we could say that during Duquette's tenure.

But I will give DD some credit.  If I were in charge of personnel for a team that plays home games in Camden Yards, and you gave me this choice under the payroll budget:

1. Corner OF that hits well but is slow
2. Corner OF that hits poorly but is fast

I'm taking option 1 nearly every time.  Now, I would still want a good CF.  And you veterans of the board know I've been lobbying for Adam Jones in RF for years now.  And given the opportunity for a good all around COF, I'd take it.  But I don't think the big, lumbering COF is necessarily bad roster construction for the Orioles.

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Defense peaks early.  I don't see any reason to think that a 26 year old is going to improve as he gets older.  Maybe if he were showing progress from last year to this year I could see your point but he isn't any better this year.

 

Last year, I thought Mancini improved a good deal over the course of the season, so I was reasonably optimistic that he’d continue to improve this season.  He hasn’t, and if anything, has regressed a bit.    Bottom line, he’s not an instinctive outfielder and he doesn’t have the speed to make up for it if he doesn’t get a good jump on the ball.    Add in the fact that the guy playing next to him doesn’t cover much ground, and it’s just a recipe for a lot of hits falling in that shouldn’t.   He’s pretty sure-handed on the balls he can reach (unlike Trumbo), but he’s never going to be even an average LF.

[LookitsPuck]

14 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Chris Davis' contract is arguably the worst contract ever given to a player in MLB history. Heads need to roll for that terrible call. 

If we're holding people to the fire for Chris Davis, we should hold people to the fire for Ubaldo and Gallardo. Both inexcusable contracts especially with the loss of 1st round draft picks.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 hours ago, atomic said:

It is moves like this that make us a bad team.   And the game I have seen Mancini has looked terrible out there.  He just doesn't have outfielder abilities.  You might not care about defense but I do.  I just looked up his defensive WAR and baseball reference says -1.2.  I don't know if any corner outfielder is worse than that but I find it hard to believe.  For a full season on that pace he would be close to negative 5 defense WAR.  It would be better just to have Gentry out there every day even if he:doesn't hit.  Better situation is just sit Davis and move Mancini/Trumbo to first and DH.  

Trumbo's defensive WAR is -0.5 with only 6 games played in the outfield.  

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

 Trumbo's defensive WAR is -0.5 with only 6 games played in the outfield.  

That is pretty  impressive.  Trumbo isn't an outfielder either.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

That is pretty  impressive.  Trumbo isn't an outfielder either.  

Yup, if Trumbo kept that pace it would be -13.5 defensive WAR if he played all 162 games in the outfield.