Tillman starting Thursday

[Luke-OH]

3 hours ago, Elbren said:

I have to agree w/ this.  I won't believe he's "done" as an Oriole until they've actually released him.  People were saying similar things about Ubaldo Jimenez pretty much after every start, but he was here for the entirety of his contract.  If they didn't cut bait w/ Ubaldo, I don't see them doing it with Tillman.

Ubaldo at his worst was better than this version of Tillman. 

This isn’t comparable to anything, because this hasn’t happened in a long long time. This being giving 100+ innings over multiple seasons to a pitcher performing this poorly (not just by ERA, but his peripherals are even worse, and the eye test is terrible as well).

In 2017 he was the worst performing pitcher to be given 80+ innings in the last 13 years on any team. And he’s been worse this year. 

[justice98]

6 hours ago, Santandah said:

He knows he's hurting this team, knows that the road here is almost over, and that's got to hurt. Imagine trying to save your own job with the pressure of a whole team, a fan base, and also millions of dollars at stake all boring down on you.

Then he should have plenty of people to commiserate with.  That's 75% of the team. 

[LC_O's_87]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

My guess  is there is an agreement that he goes to Sarasota to strengthen his shoulder.   Whether that is 60 day DL or DFA.    He live in Sarasota.   If they can strengthen his shoulder he can go to Bowie to  show he can still pitch.   He will remain around the O's.  

What was he doing all offseason though?  He's been going the strengthening route since 2016.

Theoretically he should be at his strongest right about now.  It's one thing if he faded after about 2 months b/c of whatever shoulder problem that he has.

The thing is, he looks like he's in tremendous shape.  Like the best shape he's ever been in as an Oriole.

He needs to take care of whatever is going on in that shoulder in a new way.  

[InsideCoroner]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Ubaldo at his worst was better than this version of Tillman. 

This isn’t comparable to anything, because this hasn’t happened in a long long time. This being giving 100+ innings over multiple seasons to a pitcher performing this poorly (not just by ERA, but his peripherals are even worse, and the eye test is terrible as well).

In 2017 he was the worst performing pitcher to be given 80+ innings in the last 13 years on any team. And he’s been worse this year. 

That’s sadly true. At least Ubaldo would usually get into the 3rd or 4th inning before handing over the ball. 

If it weren’t for those seven shutout innings he threw against Detroit, Tillman would have already long been out of the rotation. 

[SteveA]

I think if we hadn't had the double header coming up, he wouldn't have even gotten the start last night.  I have no doubt he will be off the roster, if not by tonight, then by the start of the first game Saturday.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think if we hadn't had the double header coming up, he wouldn't have even gotten the start last night.  I have no doubt he will be off the roster, if not by tonight, then by the start of the first game Saturday.

If they’re going to make the move before the weekend, there’s no reason not to do it before tonight’s game and get somebody up here in case they’re needed.   

[SteveA]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

If they’re going to make the move before the weekend, there’s no reason not to do it before tonight’s game and get somebody up here in case they’re needed.   

Assuming Bundy is going to go Sunday (we haven't heard otherwise...what if Bundy went Saturday on 3 days rest after only 28 pitches Tuesday, and Hess could come up Sunday and make a start on normal rest and take that spot in the rotation.  The 26th man for the DH could be an extra bullpen arm, and the DFA Tillman / recall Hess move can be made any time between now and Sunday, it really doesn't matter.

[Elbren]

2 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Ubaldo at his worst was better than this version of Tillman. 

This isn’t comparable to anything, because this hasn’t happened in a long long time. This being giving 100+ innings over multiple seasons to a pitcher performing this poorly (not just by ERA, but his peripherals are even worse, and the eye test is terrible as well).

In 2017 he was the worst performing pitcher to be given 80+ innings in the last 13 years on any team. And he’s been worse this year. 

That's kind of my point.  He was that bad last year and he was still given 19 starts.  And yes, Ubaldo was better than current-Tillman, but that's not exactly saying much.    If they kept a FA merc like Ubaldo for the entirety of his contract (especially over the last two years of that contract), I just don't see them dropping a "real Oriole" like Tillman whose been here for a decade.  We're talking about the same team that guaranteed him $3 Mil. and a ML-deal when no one else even wanted him.  For better or worse, this is a team that shows loyalty to "their guys".  I'm not saying he stays in the rotation the entire year.  I'm not even saying that he stays on the team the entire year.  But I do think he sticks around for a lot longer than people around here want him to (myself included).

 

He's "only" making $3 Mil.,  his incentive clauses are pretty low ($1-1.5 Mil. each), at his current pace he isn't likely to hit most (if any) of those incentives and there really isn't anyone in the MiL's that's beating the door down to force their way into the rotation.  I think, at best, we might get a phantom-injury that conveniently sends him to the DL when they need to make another move.

[Tx Oriole]

7 hours ago, theobird said:

Except Ubaldo's contract was fully guaranteed. Tillmans? They can cut bait now and avoid paying a lot for less than nothing. It is time to move on. I hate it for Tillman, he is a good guy. But he cannot pitch anymore in the majors.

Yes it's sad for him and I feel for him. Time to move on. 

[Can_of_corn]

48 minutes ago, Elbren said:

That's kind of my point.  He was that bad last year and he was still given 19 starts.  And yes, Ubaldo was better than current-Tillman, but that's not exactly saying much.    If they kept a FA merc like Ubaldo for the entirety of his contract (especially over the last two years of that contract), I just don't see them dropping a "real Oriole" like Tillman whose been here for a decade.  We're talking about the same team that guaranteed him $3 Mil. and a ML-deal when no one else even wanted him.  For better or worse, this is a team that shows loyalty to "their guys".  I'm not saying he stays in the rotation the entire year.  I'm not even saying that he stays on the team the entire year.  But I do think he sticks around for a lot longer than people around here want him to (myself included).

 

He's "only" making $3 Mil.,  his incentive clauses are pretty low ($1-1.5 Mil. each), at his current pace he isn't likely to hit most (if any) of those incentives and there really isn't anyone in the MiL's that's beating the door down to force their way into the rotation.  I think, at best, we might get a phantom-injury that conveniently sends him to the DL when they need to make another move.

Matusz was only making around 3M and they refused to eat that money.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Matusz was only making around 3M and they refused to eat that money.

But there have been other instances when they did, though later in the season: Bud Norris was released with about $2.9 mm remaining on his contract.

It seems to me that saving money by trading a guy plus a draft pick for non-prospects might be a defensible strategy when you’re a contending team and want to save money for mid-season acquisitions, but it makes no sense in the present scenario.   They’ll be shedding salary, not adding it.

[Going Underground]

I think they let him go after the game or something?

[InsideCoroner]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Matusz was only making around 3M and they refused to eat that money.

Right, but Matusz had one season of 2+ WAR in his career when they cut him. Tillman had a 5-year stretch where he averaged over 2 wins per year. That buys you a lot of good will.