Orioles: Most inept organization in all of profesional sports?

[SteveA]

Dan Connolly weighs in on firing someone:

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2018/04/19/firing-someone-may-send-message-wont-make-2018-orioles-better/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

They will have to fire him eventually.  This isn't an expansion team or a team that just did a rebuild.  You can't manage this badly and keep your job.   

I know people like simple answers and straightforward solutions, but looking at the Orioles organization as a whole and deciding that the record over the last 40 games is entirely/mostly/predominantly the fault of Buck's managing is more than a little myopic.

A new manager isn't going to make Caleb Joseph hit, or Chris Davis, or Tim Beckham.  Buck isn't the reason Tillman and Cobb have allowed 30 runs in 18 innings.

And, no, they don't have to fire him.  He'll probably just retire at the end of the season.

[Aglets]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know people like simple answers and straightforward solutions, but looking at the Orioles organization as a whole and deciding that the record over the last 40 games is entirely/mostly/predominantly the fault of Buck's managing is more than a little myopic.

A new manager isn't going to make Caleb Joseph hit, or Chris Davis, or Tim Beckham.  Buck isn't the reason Tillman and Cobb have allowed 30 runs in 18 innings.

And, no, they don't have to fire him.  He'll probably just retire at the end of the season.

Obviously all of this is 100% true.  I'm not sure what options people think Buck has at this point.

Curious though.........if you were Buck would you keep running out Beckham at 3rd and Manny at SS?

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Obviously all of this is 100% true.  I'm not sure what options people think Buck has at this point.

Curious though.........if you were Buck would you keep running out Beckham at 3rd and Manny at SS?

Yes.  If I thought it was a good idea in March, I'm going to give it more than 20 days before I give up unless it's just a utter and complete trainwreck.  You obviously don't give a guy 15 starts to prove his 14.88 ERA is real.  Beckham isn't fielding like Mark Reynolds or hitting like Chris Davis, so give it time.

I'd be more worried about the team if they had already started flailing desperately around, questioning their own decisions, and making lasting changes based on 2-week slumps.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes.  If I thought it was a good idea in March, I'm going to give it more than 20 days before I give up unless it's just a utter and complete trainwreck.  You obviously don't give a guy 15 starts to prove his 14.88 ERA is real.  Beckham isn't fielding like Mark Reynolds or hitting like Chris Davis, so give it time.

I'd be more worried about the team if they had already started flailing desperately around, questioning their own decisions, and making lasting changes based on 2-week slumps.

Agreed.   And as I’ve pointed out a few times, both Cal and Melvin Mora took a month or two to settle in at 3B when they moved there.   In 1997, Cal made 3 errors in his first 7 games, 7 in his first 31, 11 in his first 51.   In 2004, Mora made 4 in his first 4 games, 7 in his first 11, 12 in his first 37.    Both of them eventually adjusted.   I expect Beckham will too.

[Aglets]

35 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes.  If I thought it was a good idea in March, I'm going to give it more than 20 days before I give up unless it's just a utter and complete trainwreck.  You obviously don't give a guy 15 starts to prove his 14.88 ERA is real.  Beckham isn't fielding like Mark Reynolds or hitting like Chris Davis, so give it time.

I'd be more worried about the team if they had already started flailing desperately around, questioning their own decisions, and making lasting changes based on 2-week slumps.

So you got concerned when Buck pulled Chris Davis from batting leadoff after 5 games?  

[El Gordo]

2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

So you got concerned when Buck pulled Chris Davis from batting leadoff after 5 games?  

That was different, that was about trying to get his bat started. I doubt that was ever supposed to be permanent. As Mancini probably isn't permanent.

[atomic]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know people like simple answers and straightforward solutions, but looking at the Orioles organization as a whole and deciding that the record over the last 40 games is entirely/mostly/predominantly the fault of Buck's managing is more than a little myopic.

A new manager isn't going to make Caleb Joseph hit, or Chris Davis, or Tim Beckham.  Buck isn't the reason Tillman and Cobb have allowed 30 runs in 18 innings.

And, no, they don't have to fire him.  He'll probably just retire at the end of the season.

If what you say is true than it makes sense to fire Buck.  He is going to be gone at the end of the season.  And a new manager can't do any worse.  Maybe it will just be wake-up call to the players.  Give them some confidence or motivate them.  If a new manager doesn't help then you clean house.  Trade Machado, Schoop, Jones, Brach.  And anyone else who you can get rid of not named Sisco, Mancini, Gausman, Bundy.  

I see zero reason not to fire Buck.  It won't hurt him he is paid until the end of the year.  You said he has no effect on the players play.  Seems like you are another yes for fire.   

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

If what you say is true than it makes sense to fire Buck.  He is going to be gone at the end of the season.  And a new manager can't do any worse.  Maybe it will just be wake-up call to the players.  Give them some confidence or motivate them.  If a new manager doesn't help then you clean house.  Trade Machado, Schoop, Jones, Brach.  And anyone else who you can get rid of not named Sisco, Mancini, Gausman, Bundy.  

I see zero reason not to fire Buck.  It won't hurt him he is paid until the end of the year.  You said he has no effect on the players play.  Seems like you are another yes for fire.   

Who do you want to see manage the rebuild/retool? Because the Orioles will be convinced they can compete next year. Don't be fooled into thinking they will do a complete rebuild. Not with their current starting pitching staff. 

[Ballmer Bruce]

With the makeup of this roster switching Beckham and Manny now would simply be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[eddie83]

Dan Connolly seems to think Buck will be back. 

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2018/04/19/firing-someone-may-send-message-wont-make-2018-orioles-better/

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Dan Connolly seems to think Buck will be back. 

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2018/04/19/firing-someone-may-send-message-wont-make-2018-orioles-better/

Posted that in this thread a couple hours ago, but none of the sharks took time from the feeding frenzy to read it, I guess.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

If what you say is true than it makes sense to fire Buck.  He is going to be gone at the end of the season.  And a new manager can't do any worse.  Maybe it will just be wake-up call to the players.  Give them some confidence or motivate them.  If a new manager doesn't help then you clean house.  Trade Machado, Schoop, Jones, Brach.  And anyone else who you can get rid of not named Sisco, Mancini, Gausman, Bundy.  

I see zero reason not to fire Buck.  It won't hurt him he is paid until the end of the year.  You said he has no effect on the players play.  Seems like you are another yes for fire.   

I don't think that the pool of potential managers in mid-season is what it would be in the offseason.  If you're the next great manager are you going to be let out of your current job from another organization in mid-April?  How many HOF managers took over as caretaker managers after someone else got fired?

Don't the players like Buck?  I get the feeling that the clubhouse is all good with him.  Firing him now isn't going to be a confidence builder, or a motivator, it's a full-on admission that this team is going nowhere and we're blowing it up, so nothing they do is going to matter. 

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't think that the pool of potential managers in mid-season is what it would be in the offseason.  If you're the next great manager are you going to be let out of your current job from another organization in mid-April?  How many HOF managers took over as caretaker managers after someone else got fired?

Don't the players like Buck?  I get the feeling that the clubhouse is all good with him.  Firing him now isn't going to be a confidence builder, or a motivator, it's a full-on admission that this team is going nowhere and we're blowing it up, so nothing they do is going to matter. 

If Buck has to go, either now or at the end of the season, it would be not because of his managing.   It would be because of the input he had into personnel decisions (and all we have on that are rumors, but if they are true then he has hurt the team with that input).

But as for managing... Buck's Orioles have exceeded their PECOTA prediction for wins 7 straight years.   And 8 is not out of the question yet, believe it or not.   I seriously doubt whoever the next manager we get will match that record.

If he has to go because his team-building ambitions and skills have affected the organization badly, so be it.  If a less dysfunctional hierarchy is needed and Buck is not willing to just be a manager, then after the season we'll let him quietly walk into the sunset.   But he isn't going to be fired during the season and anyone who thinks he is, is just dreaming.

[gmelson26]

I'm all for keeping Buck as our manager.. I don't see how we'd do better.  I say this having a number of issues with him.  Veteranosity, the win/save rules, a few other things.

That said, we need a strong GM who doesn't make personnel decisions based off of Buck.  I'm skeptical as to whether or not that's even possible with the current regime however.