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Orioles: Most inept organization in all of profesional sports?

foxfield

By foxfield
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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
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1 minute ago, Aglets said:

Just not true.    Outright falsehoods in this post.    Yes it was a bad move in that playoff game, but you don't fire a manager for one bad decision........otherwise no manager would last more than a year.   We played very well in 2017 considering we had (literally) the worst rotation in MLB.  Teams like that do not end up in playoff contention.......yet we were doing just that at the end of August.  

I wouldn't call it a bad move.  I would say it is a historically awful move in a one game playoff. Probably one of the worst 10 management decisions in baseball history.  

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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Just now, atomic said:

I wouldn't call it a bad move.  I would say it is a historically awful move in a one game playoff. Probably one of the worst 10 management decisions in baseball history.  

Then there is no arguing with you.   Keep on doing your thing.  Maybe eventually you'll find a few people that agree with you.

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amdcpus Major Leaguer

amdcpus

Posted
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2 minutes ago, atomic said:

I wouldn't call it a bad move.  I would say it is a historically awful move in a one game playoff. Probably one of the worst 10 management decisions in baseball history.  

Agreed. Awful, terrible decision.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
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1 minute ago, Aglets said:

Then there is no arguing with you.   Keep on doing your thing.  Maybe eventually you'll find a few people that agree with you.

I think most people would agree that pitching Ubaldo over Britton in extra innings in a one playoff game is a horrible horrible decision.   I know people don't like ERA as a stat.  But Britton had .054 ERA that year and Ubaldo had a 5.44 ERA.  

The horribleness of the decision is magnified that it ruined a whole season of hard work by the club.  There was no coming back from it.  It isn't like it was a 7 game series and this was the first game. 

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Sessh Hangout Veteran Council

Sessh

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5 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Then there is no arguing with you.   Keep on doing your thing.  Maybe eventually you'll find a few people that agree with you.

Everyone in the baseball world that heard about this agreed with him. He was the butt end of jokes for weeks. Many people on these boards agree with him. That was one of the worst managerial decisions I've ever seen. I think you'll find far fewer people would continue to defend or attempt to minimize it. It was downright awful and it cost this team the season. They really haven't been the same since then. Played below .500 after April in 2017, did they not? I think April was the only month they had a record above .500, but could be wrong about that as there may have been one month they broke even or were one game over. After April, they were a below .500 team. I'm open to correction on that. It's been downhill since then and it was already going downhill because of the Toronto debacle.

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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6 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Everyone in the baseball world that heard about this agreed with him. He was the butt end of jokes for weeks. Many people on these boards agree with him. That was one of the worst managerial decisions I've ever seen. I think you'll find far fewer people would continue to defend or attempt to minimize it. It was downright awful and it cost this team the season. They really haven't been the same since then. Played below .500 after April in 2017, did they not? I think April was the only month they had a record above .500, but could be wrong about that as there may have been one month they broke even or were one game over. After April, they were a below .500 team. I'm open to correction on that. It's been downhill since then and it was already going downhill because of the Toronto debacle.

You are indeed wrong on some of the details here.  We were above .500 in 2 different months in 2017.  7 games over, and 5 games over.

In no way am I defending Buck's decision to pitch Ubaldo in that game!   I don't think I've ever defended that decision in my lifetime, nor will I ever.  It was awful.

What he is dead wrong about is that this team has never played well or hard for Buck since that game.  It's just a fabrication (or outright falsehood, as I said earlier).  It's creating a narrative that is not backed by actual facts.

We had the worst rotation in MLB last year......we competed despite that BECAUSE of Buck.    

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Il BuonO Hangout Grand Counsel

Il BuonO

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2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Like seriously, we were 71-68 in SEPTEMBER last year.   That's insane considering we were throwing Tillman, Ubaldo, and Miley or Hellickson out there every 3 out of 5 days or whatever.

Seems impossible they could fit that many games into one month, but I’ll take your word for it.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

Posted
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1 minute ago, Aglets said:

You are indeed wrong on some of the details here.  We were above .500 in 2 different months in 2017.  7 games over, and 5 games over.

In no way am I defending Buck's decision to pitch Ubaldo in that game!   I don't think I've ever defended that decision in my lifetime, nor will I ever.  It was awful.

What he is dead wrong about is that this team has never played well or hard for Buck since that game.  It's just a fabrication (or outright falsehood, as I said earlier).  It's creating a narrative that is not backed by actual facts.

We had the worst rotation in MLB last year......we competed despite that BECAUSE of Buck.    

We were in last place last season.  We didn't compete after May 9th last season.  We were 12 games over .500 on that day and that was the high point.  Tillman had only pitched one game at that point and had give up zero runs.  The bullpen was pitching well.  On June 1st Miley had a 2.82 ERA and Bundy a 2.89 ERA.  We were getting some good pitching early.  The team fell apart pretty quickly.  

Since May 9th of last year they are 58 -101.  Let that sink in for a while.  That is a 36 wining percentage for almost a complete year.  I don't call that competing. 

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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7 minutes ago, Aglets said:

 

Like seriously, we were 71-68 in SEPTEMBER last year. That's insane, considering we were throwing Tillman, Ubaldo, and Miley or Hellickson out there every 3 out of 5 games.

 

o

 

In my rat's ass of an opinion, the Orioles being 71-68 more than 3 quarters of the way into the season last year with one of the worst starting rotations in recent memory was a minor miracle.

 

Last year's Orioles bullpen was the 3rd-most overworked in all of the Majors ....... only the Reds and the Blue Jays pitched more bullpen innings than did the Orioles in 2017, and both of those teams were as bad (the Blue Jays) or worse (the Reds) than were the Orioles overall. As Roy Firestone said several years back, IT ALL BEGINS WITH DECENT STARTING PITCHING. If you consistently have bad starting pitching over a long period of time, then it has a domino effect on the rest of the team,starting with putting more pressure and more of a workload on the  bullpen. It also puts more pressure on the offense when the starters regularly put them in a major hole early in the game. Considering how historically bad the 2017 Orioles starting pitching was (and subsequently how overworked the bullpen was), it really does border on amazing that the team was 71-68 more than 3 quarters of the way into the season. The 4-19 collapse over the final 23 games after the season was (to me) completely understandable ......... it was like a very shaky house trying its darndest to hang on throughout multiple storms over a 5-month period, only to finally cave in and meet its demise when brutalized one too many times.

 

o

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Mondo Trasho Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Mondo Trasho

Posted
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Re: the Ubaldo/Britton situation of 2016:

I'm one of those people who think it was only a poor choice in hindsight. If they had pitched Britton only to not score and brought in Ubaldo in some later inning and still lost, would that be any better? At the end of the day the problem was Ubaldo being on the roster at all, not necessarily Buck trying to roll the dice a little bit in a tough spot.

Re: firing Buck:

If I were a gambling man, I'd say he's probably fired by July 1st if current trends continue. I am certain he isn't going to be back next season. I want him to stay however. I think he's a great manager, and the O's would not have done as well as they have without him. Unless he's the one behind the scenes making personnel moves, the reason this team is where they are in 2018 has little to do with game management decisions.

I do not think DD deserves much blame either.

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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19 minutes ago, atomic said:

We were in last place last season.  We didn't compete after May 9th last season.  We were 12 games over .500 on that day and that was the high point.  Tillman had only pitched one game at that point and had give up zero runs.  The bullpen was pitching well.  On June 1st Miley had a 2.82 ERA and Bundy a 2.89 ERA.  We were getting some good pitching early.  The team fell apart pretty quickly.  

Since May 9th of last year they are 58 -101.  Let that sink in for a while.  That is a 36 wining percentage for almost a complete year.  I don't call that competing. 

We had very strong months in April and August and were mediocre in the other months other than September.   To state that we just quit after some arbitrary date in May is intellectually dishonest.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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6 minutes ago, Aglets said:

We had very strong months in April and August and were mediocre in the other months other than September.   To state that we just quit after some arbitrary date in May is intellectually dishonest.

You don't like facts do you.  58 and 101 are the facts.   If calling me a liar makes you feel better when I don't make up the records is sad.   By your photo I can tell you are a senior citizen so I won't insult you back as I was raised to respect my elders. 

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jjnono All-Star

jjnono

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Mondo Trasho said:

Re: the Ubaldo/Britton situation of 2016:

I'm one of those people who think it was only a poor choice in hindsight. If they had pitched Britton only to not score and brought in Ubaldo in some later inning and still lost, would that be any better? At the end of the day the problem was Ubaldo being on the roster at all, not necessarily Buck trying to roll the dice a little bit in a tough spot.

 

Actually, yes, it would have been better, if only because in an extra-inning, win-or-go-home scenario, you have to give every inning your best shot, starting with the pitcher who gives you the best option to get three outs.  In that situation, Britton was the best option.  And sure, if Britton held the Jays scoreless, and the O's failed to score, and Ubaldo came in next - as the next best option - and gave up the lead, at least you lost knowing you put your best pitcher out there FIRST.  It's hardly a standard issue keep-your-closer-for-when-you-have-a-lead type situation...  But Buck gambled and lost.  And if Britton had gotten nicked for the loss, again, at least it was your best guy and you tip your cap to the opposition..

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