Buck, Dan and ownership need to deal with the Davis issue first

[TouchemAll]

11 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

Mental competence aside, my impression is that Angelos has never had the emotional makeup that would enable him to  conclude (and certainly not to admit) that he's made a mistake, let alone feel shame or remorse or regret for what he appears to view as his generous and noble actions and decisions (that is,  pretty much all his actions and decisions).

And my guess is that, whatever his role was in the Davis, Trumbo, Tillman  or other decisions that shaped this team, Buck -- another guy who I've never heard own up to having made a mistake even though he's made plenty and they're right there for the rest of his see --  today views himself as a manager who faces the impossible assignment of winning with the crappy 40-man and 25-man roster the organization has given him and who's been let down by some real bad performances that nobody could have expected. 

Well can't say I feel to sorry for Buck, I think he's had a major influence on his 25 guys.

[wildbillhiccup]

Ya'll are getting ahead of yourself. Step 1 is to bench Davis. Ideally for the rest of the season. Then after making him ride pine for 4+ months you approach him in the off season and tell him he can either do this for four more years or negotiate a buy out. Maybe he's fine just continuing to collect that pay check. Or maybe his pride kicks in. What I do know is that as long as they continue to play him there's no reason for him to even consider a buy out. 

Also, let's not forget that the Orioles gave him this money and this contract. It's 100% on them for not effectively scouting and evaluating their own players talent before extending him such a ridiculous offer. And if Buck was the one pushing for the signing then I seriously question his ability to evaluate talent. 

[clapdiddy]

13 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ya'll are getting ahead of yourself. Step 1 is to bench Davis. Ideally for the rest of the season. Then after making him ride pine for 4+ months you approach him in the off season and tell him he can either do this for four more years or negotiate a buy out. Maybe he's fine just continuing to collect that pay check. Or maybe his pride kicks in. What I do know is that as long as they continue to play him there's no reason for him to even consider a buy out. 

Also, let's not forget that the Orioles gave him this money and this contract. It's 100% on them for not effectively scouting and evaluating their own players talent before extending him such a ridiculous offer. And if Buck was the one pushing for the signing then I seriously question his ability to evaluate talent. 

If he was that proud, he'd realize he's made a lot of money in baseball, has a wonderful family and would retire.    Here in the real world, he keeps striking out 2 or 3 times a game, hits an occasional home run, plays a decent, but declining, first base, and collects his paycheck.  

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

If he was that proud, he'd realize he's made a lot of money in baseball, has a wonderful family and would retire.    Here in the real world, he keeps striking out 2 or 3 times a game, hits an occasional home run, plays a decent, but declining, first base, and collects his paycheck.  

They need to make him uncomfortable. That starts with benching him. It also makes the team better. Win win. 

[clapdiddy]

3 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

They need to make him uncomfortable. That starts with benching him. It also makes the team better. Win win. 

I can't argue with benching him.   If he was making the Major League minimum, he'd be riding pine or released at this point.  

At some point, he's going to have to be realized as a "sunk cost" and just released.   Also, at this point, do we hope that he somehow "figures it out" and just keep running him out there?   We aren't in contention, and that could be a true "win" in that scenario.  The likelihood of that happening is super slim to none, but what do we have to lose?

[baltfan]

Every front office makes mistakes.  Theo is a genius and he signed Heyward.  I honestly think most of Davis’s issue is mental.  Remember he struggled before he came to the Orioles as well

[24fps]

6 hours ago, InsideCoroner said:

Right. If anything, it could be argued he looks like someone who used to be on the juice — but then stopped.

I simply don’t understand why his bat (and exit velocity) has been slowing down steadily since 2015. 

Jayson Heyward anyone?  My diagnosis is a terrible, terrible disease called bigpaydayitis.  Sufferers believe this disease can only be cured by strict abstemiousness and general clean living for the duration of the pay day.  

[spiritof66]

18 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

They need to make him uncomfortable. That starts with benching him. It also makes the team better. Win win. 

I think there's a difference between benching Davis and giving up on him. Bench him, absolutely, just like you'd bench any player who performed this badly for this long.

But don't give up on him. Think creatively and exhaustively about ways in which he might be fixed -- coaching, counseling, legal medication, lasik surgery, new diet or workout regimen -- or hire somebody who can brainstorm that for you. Pursue during the season or next off-season any or all of them.

There are three reasons to throw some more time and money at this huge investment, maybe more. First, it might help (though it feels like the chances are slim). Second, if it doesn't work that should help convince Chris over the next few months that he's just not a ML ballplayer anymore. Third, if Chris becomes convinced of that it might help lead to a buy-out/voluntary retirement/other resolution of his contract a year or two down the road.

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I think there's a difference between benching Davis and giving up on him. Bench him, absolutely, just like you'd bench any player who performed this badly for this long.

But don't give up on him. Think creatively and exhaustively about ways in which he might be fixed -- coaching, counseling, legal medication, lasik surgery, new diet or workout regimen -- or hire somebody who can brainstorm that for you. Pursue during the season or next off-season any or all of them.

There are three reasons to throw some more time and money at this huge investment, maybe more. First, it might help (though it feels like the chances are slim). Second, if it doesn't work that should help convince Chris over the next few months that he's just not a ML ballplayer anymore. Third, if Chris becomes convinced of that it might help lead to a buy-out/voluntary retirement/other resolution of his contract a year or two down the road.

Can they demote him and let him work out his issues at AAA? Or is it one of those situations where he'd refuse a MLB assignment? 

[Richmond Bird 9]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Can they demote him and let him work out his issues at AAA? Or is it one of those situations where he'd refuse a MLB assignment? 

I think he has too much MLB service time to send him down. They can ask and he can say NO or yes.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Richmond Bird 9 said:

I think he has too much MLB service time to send him down. They can ask and he can say NO or yes.

Maybe it's another move worth making (to make him uncomfortable). Make him refuse the assignment. Make him be the bad guy. 

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, Richmond Bird 9 said:

I think he has too much MLB service time to send him down. They can ask and he can say NO or yes.

I just checked and anyone who has accrued more than 5 years of MLB time can refuse an assignment so you're absolutely right. 

[jabba72]

6 hours ago, InsideCoroner said:

Right. If anything, it could be argued he looks like someone who used to be on the juice — but then stopped.

I simply don’t understand why his bat (and exit velocity) has been slowing down steadily since 2015. 

What about Jason Heyward? 

[gmelson26]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:21 AM, TINSTAAPP said:

I don't think Davis' problems are that complicated. He has the worst pitch recognition skills in baseball and he can't beat the shift which has gotten into his head. I guess you can do something about the latter but what can be done about his inability to tell the difference between a ball and strike? I don't think he's fixable at this point. 

I think his chief problems are that his bat as slowed down.. a lot.  That and his swing has huge holes in it which doesn't lend itself to making consistent contact, which is compounded by a very slow bat speed.

[Just Regular]

I get the Union wants the rank and file to have the right to reject a demotion to protect clubs from absurd service time manipulations, but Davis is really growing into an interesting test case - the Union couldn't really object to the Orioles trying to demote him now.  Whether the goal is to make him feel uncomfortable, or to help the team, he's playing his way towards an earned attempt at demotion and rejecting it would cost him some fan goodwill.  Long-term, it might even be in his best interest to baby step back towards success without the MLB spotlight and with easier pitchers.