Rays will start relievers in all three O’s games this weekend

[Three Run Homer]

This sounds a little different from the usual "bullpen start", where you have a middle reliever go for 2-3 innings, then you plan to have another middle reliever come in for 2-3 innings and so on.  The Rays actually do plan to use a starting pitcher who will hopefully go 5-6 innings--but that pitcher will come in for the 2nd or 3rd inning rather than the first.  

It's a cute idea, although if the point is to not let a hitter face a pitcher for the third time, you could just have your starter come in for the first and then have a rule that you will take that pitcher out whenever the top of the lineup comes up for the 3rd time, even if your starter is going well.   The Rays have been following that rule with a lot of their starters for a few years, and the Nats have followed that rule with Jeremy Hellickson this year.   What difference does it make if you have a reliever come in for the first inning, or for the 5th or 6th?  

 

 

[TouchemAll]

To me it makes more sense if you can get two or three innings out of the BP guy?

[Just Regular]

11 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

This sounds a little different from the usual "bullpen start", where you have a middle reliever go for 2-3 innings, then you plan to have another middle reliever come in for 2-3 innings and so on.  The Rays actually do plan to use a starting pitcher who will hopefully go 5-6 innings--but that pitcher will come in for the 2nd or 3rd inning rather than the first.  

It's a cute idea, although if the point is to not let a hitter face a pitcher for the third time, you could just have your starter come in for the first and then have a rule that you will take that pitcher out whenever the top of the lineup comes up for the 3rd time, even if your starter is going well.   The Rays have been following that rule with a lot of their starters for a few years, and the Nats have followed that rule with Jeremy Hellickson this year.   What difference does it make if you have a reliever come in for the first inning, or for the 5th or 6th?  

 

 

It's grinding at the margins to be sure, but the difference is if your starter is effective and you want to use him for batter 19, 20, 21, etc that day, his first few batters suffering the Third Time Through The Order penalty are the bottom of the lineup.

It also assures your "opener" (probably a medium-high leverage reliever) gets an opportunity that day in an appropriate situation, 0-0 in the 1st inning.  We've certainly had moments this year Buck has had to use Givens, Bleier, etc just to finish blowouts, and the theory goes using them earlier may do more to help you not get blown out that day.

[Can_of_corn]

27 minutes ago, TouchemAll said:

To me it makes more sense if you can get two or three innings out of the BP guy?

Why?

One inning guy just you use him in the first instead of the sixth.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

This sounds a little different from the usual "bullpen start", where you have a middle reliever go for 2-3 innings, then you plan to have another middle reliever come in for 2-3 innings and so on.  The Rays actually do plan to use a starting pitcher who will hopefully go 5-6 innings--but that pitcher will come in for the 2nd or 3rd inning rather than the first.  

It's a cute idea, although if the point is to not let a hitter face a pitcher for the third time, you could just have your starter come in for the first and then have a rule that you will take that pitcher out whenever the top of the lineup comes up for the 3rd time, even if your starter is going well.   The Rays have been following that rule with a lot of their starters for a few years, and the Nats have followed that rule with Jeremy Hellickson this year.   What difference does it make if you have a reliever come in for the first inning, or for the 5th or 6th?  

 

 

The idea is to not let the top of the order hitters face the pitcher for the 3rd time.

Under your plan, the guy is gone after 18 batters.

This way, if he comes in and faces 5-6-7-8-9, then he can go 1-9 and 1-9, so you can get 23 batters out of your starter before he has to face the [presumably better] hitters at the top of the order a 3rd time.

And you are starting a RH reliever who is good vs RH, and the Orioles typically have started their lineup with 4 straight righties.

So you get an inning where you have a strong platoon advantage (Romo vs righties), you get your starter getting to start his game vs weaker pitchers sometime in the 2nd inning, and you can go longer with your starter without him having to face the good hitters for a 3rd time.

[TouchemAll]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why?

One inning guy just you use him in the first instead of the sixth.

I see your point but it assumes your six inning guy only goes 1 inning? Its just me thinking out loud that if you can get 2 or three out of him that allows you starter to go deeper into the game?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, TouchemAll said:

I see your point but it assumes your six inning guy only goes 1 inning? Its just me thinking out loud that if you can get 2 or three out of him that allows you starter to go deeper into the game?

I don't see where it makes much of a difference.  I guess I can see the logic in having your "starter" ideally face the 7-9 in the lineup.  I don't think it is going to happen all that often.

[Natty]

The O's team batting avg is .234.

They could bring up a minor league pitcher to give him some confidence. 

[Rene88]

And they will probably take 2 out of 3. Interesting exercise but as we know, more pitchers you use..greater chance one of them is having an off day. Not a fan of the idea but definitely intriguing experiment.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Rene88 said:

And they will probably take 2 out of 3. Interesting exercise but as we know, more pitchers you use..greater chance one of them is having an off day. Not a fan of the idea but definitely intriguing experiment.

But they are not using more pitchers, at least not by design.  It isn't as if the guys that would be starting are going nine.  In fact having the stater begin further down in the lineup might help them pitch more innings than they would otherwise since the top of the lineup would be delayed from seeing them for a third time.

Look at it this way:

In the prototypical game in this age the starter pitches innings 1-6 and three relievers pitch one each.

With the Rays relievers pitch the first, eight and ninth and the starter pitches 2-7.

[Rene88]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But they are not using more pitchers, at least not by design.  It isn't as if the guys that would be starting are going nine.  In fact having the stater begin further down in the lineup might help them pitch more innings than they would otherwise since the top of the lineup would be delayed from seeing them for a third time.

Look at it this way:

In the prototypical game in this age the starter pitches innings 1-6 and three relievers pitch one each.

With the Rays relievers pitch the first, eight and ninth and the starter pitches 2-7.

It’s very original and interesting. You make good points. Be fun to watch going forward.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Rene88 said:

It’s very original and interesting. You make good points. Be fun to watch going forward.

I'm very much in favor of trying new things.  I hope it goes well for them.