Can We Hit a Pause Button with the Personal Attacks on Players? Let's Focus on the Big Picture.

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, atomic said:

Why would it be wrong to criticize a  players hustle?  If he isn't running out ground balls he should be called out for it. 

Did I say it was wrong?

[Nevermore]

On 6/9/2018 at 1:15 PM, gtman55 said:

I would never attack Chris Davis personally. I have no idea what goes on or is going on in his head. But he signed the biggest contract ever by an Oriole and he isn't just underperforming. He's playing in a historical bad way. And there's not much we can do. No one would ever trade for him. Angelos isn't releasing him with the guaranteed money. It's a really bad situation. And ultimately it's terrible for the Orioles and it's fans going forward.

I remember the 4 years of Ubaldo Jimenez. He was the most hated Orioles player.  When I was at OPACY,  the boos and jeers would resound whenever he struggled. People would call him obscene names on the forums. No other struggling player was treated like that. He's  gone now (still unemployed). I believe that it was the unprecedented huge contract that he had.  Now the target seems to be Chris Davis and his huge, 6 year contact Alex Cobb has a 4 year contract even more expensive than Ubaldo's and pitching just about  as badly as Ubaldo did. But he's not a fan target. The fans seem to be content with Chris Davis as their main target.

There is absolutely no problem with criticizing a players technique or production, even calling his player's techniques or production "garbage".

[nsw]

17 minutes ago, Nevermore said:

I remember the 4 years of Ubaldo Jimenez. He was the most hated Orioles player.  When I was at OPACY,  the boos and jeers would resound whenever he struggled. People would call him obscene names on the forums. No other struggling player was treated like that. He's  gone now (still unemployed). I believe that it was the unprecedented huge contract that he had.  Now the target seems to be Chris Davis and his huge, 6 year contact Alex Cobb has a 4 year contract even more expensive than Ubaldo's and pitching just about  as badly as Ubaldo did. But he's not a fan target. The fans seem to be content with Chris Davis as their main target.

There is absolutely no problem with criticizing a players technique or production, even calling his player's techniques or production "garbage".

I had forgotten about it being 4 years. Ouch! 

There's got to be a pony in here somewhere...

[utvolzac]

On 6/9/2018 at 12:00 PM, Frobby said:

I think there’s a difference between critiquing a player’s abilities (which includes the ability to stay healthy) and a “personal attack” on a player.   To me, a personal attack means attacking the player’s character, work ethic, hustle, etc.    Whereas saying a guy has lost bat speed or can’t hit a curve ball is something else entirely.     

I would disagree, character, work ethic, hustle, etc are all part of the game. These guys are professionals, critiquing them in these areas are fair game for sports talk/message boards. There’s been plenty of times where guys are “locker room cancers” or are lazy/out of shape and it impacts the team. I wouldn’t label that as a personal attack. If you question whether Davis is slumping because he’s not working hard enough, studying tape, putting in extra batting practice, whatever, its not personal it’s just an opinion of why his performance continues to be sub par.

Personal attacks are going after a guy’s private life, family, off the field issues, etc. that are completely unrelated to their profession.

[Rene88]

There is no way Cobb is this bad. Impossible. Something is broken with the Os for sure in the SP front and maybe this is another example? Honestly, Cobb’s performance is shocking to me. I didn’t really like the Ubaldo signing (wanted the pitcher with the Twins bc Ubaldo had less than a year of great stuff) but Cobb has been consistent, itvwas anout health with him.

We need to clean house top to bottom.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

There is no way Cobb is this bad. Impossible. Something is broken with the Os for sure in the SP front and maybe this is another example? Honestly, Cobb’s performance is shocking to me. I didn’t really like the Ubaldo signing (wanted the pitcher with the Twins bc Ubaldo had less than a year of great stuff) but Cobb has been consistent, itvwas anout health with him.

We need to clean house top to bottom.

The Orioles stink has rubbed off on Cobb.  

Tom Seaver in his prime would have a 5.00 ERA pitching for this team.  

[atomic]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Orioles stink has rubbed off on Cobb.  

 Tom Seaver in his prime would have a 5.00 ERA pitching for this team.  

No one can field, we have a tiny ballpark in a tough division.  Not ideal for pitcher.s

[Rene88]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Orioles stink has rubbed off on Cobb.  

Tom Seaver in his prime would have a 5.00 ERA pitching for this team.  

I honestly think this is right and I would like someone to come in and do an assessment for the rest of the season to fix some of these organizational failures. We should not be focused on "getting better" but getting better long term.

I understand it is a tough division and a small ballpark but that isn't all there is here. I am sorry. There is much more more causing this pitching malaise. Kranitz seemed to be doing fine with our folks when Buck jettisoned him....

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, atomic said:

No one can field, we have a tiny ballpark in a tough division.  Not ideal for pitcher.s

Cobb has a 5.14 FIP.  No one can pitch, either.  

[wildbillhiccup]

Are Brady's sideburns off limits? Or is that considered a personal attack? 

[JR Oriole]

When you have a winning team, guys like Taylor Teagarden and Nate McLouth come up huge for you in key moments.  When you have a losing team, guys with established careers become horrible.   I am not sure that on paper, the 2018 Orioles should be that much worse than the 2012 Orioles.  But they are light years apart in terms of wins and losses because morale is bad and I believe they expect and accept failure.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Orioles stink has rubbed off on Cobb.  

Tom Seaver in his prime would have a 5.00 ERA pitching for this team.  

I think Cobb’s numbers are kind of misleading.   He’s pitched 6 pretty good games, and 5 stinkers, 3 of which were probably attributable to his late start this season.    Yesterday was surely awful, but I still expect him to pitch well more often than not.    

[Nevermore]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think Cobb’s numbers are kind of misleading.   He’s pitched 6 pretty good games, and 5 stinkers, 3 of which were probably attributable to his late start this season.    Yesterday was surely awful, but I still expect him to pitch well more often than not.    

As I said, Cobb isn't a fan target. So fans can calmly look at his 2018 numbers and come up with reasonable explanations for some of his crappy pitching.  Ubaldo also started late in ST, but that wasn't accepted as a reason for his crappy pitching. Instead, he became a fan target. The Orioles were winning, on their way to a wire-to-wire Eastern Division champion title. But some fans felt the need of a fan target. It has seemed to be a kind of herd instinct, home fans booing, jeering, attacking one of their own players. Now he's gone, the team is struggling offensively. Especially Chris Davis, with his huge 7 year contract and his gawdawful performance. I  haven't been at OPACY this year. Do fans boo when CD comes up or when he strikes out or hits into a ground out or a DP?

 

 

 

[24fps]

15 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Are Brady's sideburns off limits? Or is that considered a personal attack? 

IMO it's walking around wearing a sign saying "Kick Me Hard".  Fair game.

[tntoriole]

On 6/9/2018 at 11:05 AM, Rene88 said:

We follow sports because it is a break from the ordinary stressors in life. I get we are terrible. I saw failure coming after the Britton trade was blocked, writing on the wall....more ownership meddling but even I am shocked HOW bad we are. Kinda speechless, but it may be a blessing in disguise if executed properly.

And I know Davis is just awful, but he is a human being. He didn't steal the money. He was offered the money after DD didn't want to give it (our GM that was supposed to be in charge but clearly isn't). BUCK is the guy that went to Angelos. Why aren't people upset with Buck? Calling him names? And honestly it isn't his fault either-it's awful dysfunction. No chain of command.

Then I see people spiking the football on Hunter Harvey. He is worse than Hayden Penn from a health perspective....I knew he couldn't stay healthy...(I thought this about Bundy honestly and I was wrong, so let's not jump to collusions). First off, I wish I had 1/5 the talent of either Hayden Penn or Hunter Harvey. Second, Harvey is still young. Let's not give up quite yet there (separate issue from Davis IMO).

I am not trying to troll here but I think a point needs to be made. These are human beings. I am not saying we can't criticze them but really who gave Davis the contract? Who drafted a projected utility all-glove, limited hit SS in the first round this year? We need to hold ownership responsible, not Chris Davis. 

This organization has not invested in international talent (look down the road and Juan Soto...a think of beauty at 19...international free agent signing). The org letting Buck bring in his own staff despite jettisoning much much much better coaches (Rick Kranitz comes to mind). The Manager going over the head of the GM to get Chris Davis signed? The lack of investment in scouting and scouts in general?

I know most don't mean harm, really. I get it. Let's just focus less on personal attacks of the players and focus on the big picture about how this org is broken and perhaps if we could refocus our energy to the FO on writing letters, emails. We might do some good. And I am not trying to be hollier than thou because I have bashed many a player (Gentry comes to mind because he seems like a swell guy but thought he didn't belong on the roster) so I will try to focus myself as well.

End this dysfunction and let's hope we execute some good trades for the future. We aren't competing with the Sox or Yankees in the near term regardless so let's do this rebuild right and fix what is broken.

Go Orioles.

 

I appreciate the positive sentiment.  However, as most optimists tend to do, you overreact to us pessimists.  You worry a bit when we are “too negative” or “blame the wrong person” and try to optimistically point us into letting go of our negativity.  And you make valid points, absolutely. 

But, here is the deal.  I have to be nice usually in every area of my life.  I have to be nice, say positive things even if I don’t feel them.  As an Oriole fan, I have always expressed things ummmm intensely.  I throw things at TVs sometimes...I curse at the TV or radio...etc.  I am not proud of these, but it is the way I root.  If the performance of Oriole players do not lead to wins, then I decry their performance.  I deride them and the horse they rode in on.  It is not personal.  I do not know any of them personally.  And I do not deride their mothers or family or the church they attend.  I deride their professional performance.  It is just a way for me to ventilate.  

So, while I appreciate the positive sentiments, and I do strive towards them..(ask my wife, the eternal optimist),  I am really fine with calling out Oriole players sarcastically, satirically, even viciously when their performance deserves it.