Fangraphs: Missing Fans

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

Jeter played in 158 postseason games, had 200 hits, batted .308 career, and seemingly saved every one of those 200 hits for critical close game situations where the opposing team really needed to get him out and couldn't. 

Trout has played in 3 postseason games, has 1 hit, .083 career, and saw his team swept by the damn Royals. 

 The bottom line is if you play for the Yankees, and you are a fixture in October, and you deliver under pressure, then you are going to be super hyped.  Trout is a much better player than Jeter, but if you are on the west coast and October comes around and you are never there, then you won't resonate. 

Yeah you either need to be setting all sorts of records or winning championships or being a great personality.   And I am not talking WAR records. I mean real records.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

What?? His stats don't even come close to Bonds 2001 and 2002 season.  His OPS is over .200 lower than Bonds best seasons.  Trout is most overrated player.

2018 Trout 209 wRC+

2001-2002 Bonds 235/244 wRC+. 

I'd say that counts as close, particularly since 2018 Trout has a lot more value on defense than 2001-2002 Bonds.

You do know that OPS must be adjusted for offensive era right?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

Yeah you either need to be setting all sorts of records or winning championships or being a great personality.   And I am not talking WAR records. I mean real records.  

If Trout had the charisma of Ken Griffey Jr or Bo Jackson, casual sports fans would know him. 

There is nothing about Trout that makes most people want to watch the Angels play when they are on a nationally televised game.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

If Trout had the charisma of Ken Griffey Jr or Bo Jackson, casual sports fans would know him. 

There is nothing about Trout that makes most people want to watch the Angels play when they are on a nationally televised game.

Right, because Cal JR had charisma to spare.

It's baseballs job to properly market their players at the national level and they are doing a poor job of it.

[atomic]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

2018 Trout 209 wRC+

2001-2002 Bonds 235/244 wRC+. 

I'd say that counts as close, particularly since 2018 Trout has a lot more value on defense than 2001-2002 Bonds.

You do know that OPS must be adjusted for offensive era right?

Maybe the players aren't as good as they were in 2001 and 2002.  I have no idea what wRC+ is. Like I said use real stats not made up ones.   Trout hasn't even led the league in average once or home runs.  So it is not like he is far superior to his peers.  If he puts up stats like Rickey Henderson or Barry Bonds he would be noticed.  When you have to spend a half hour explaining to people why Trout is a great ball player you are going to lose your audience. 

[JR Oriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, because Cal JR had charisma to spare.

It's baseballs job to properly market their players at the national level and they are doing a poor job of it.

Yeah he wasn't much more exciting personality wise than Trout.  But it did help that he was going for an all-time record that the public could easily value.  Consecutive games played doesn't need much context, whereas WAR, wRC+, and some of these other stats don't exactly resonate like 714 or 2,130. 

The real challenge with baseball is the shortening attention span of people in general.  Technology advances (smart phones in particular) have made people much less patient, which means sitting around for a 3 hour game is just tough for people now.  Just look next to you in the car when the light is red and see how many people are looking down at their phones.  We can't even wait out a red light, let alone a baseball game.  People still like golf though, but I don't look to see the attendance at the non-major tourneys.  Other sports tend to move faster and I think that caters more to our diminished attention spans.  Me, I still love baseball and it is my favorite sport...always will be.  But I'm middle aged!

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, atomic said:

Maybe the players aren't as good as they were in 2001 and 2002.  I have no idea what wRC+ is. Like I said use real stats not made up ones.   Trout hasn't even led the league in average once or home runs.  So it is not like he is far superior to his peers.  If he puts up stats like Rickey Henderson or Barry Bonds he would be noticed.  When you have to spend a half hour explaining to people why Trout is a great ball player you are going to lose your audience. 

All stats are made up.

And with that, I'm done wasting my time.

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, because Cal JR had charisma to spare.

 It's baseballs job to properly market their players at the national level and they are doing a poor job of it.

He set a record that people said could never be broken.   Trout isn't setting any records. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

Yeah he wasn't much more exciting personality wise than Trout.  But it did help that he was going for an all-time record that the public could easily value.  Consecutive games played doesn't need much context, whereas WAR, wRC+, and some of these other stats don't exactly resonate like 714 or 2,130. 

The real challenge with baseball is the shortening attention span of people in general.  Technology advances (smart phones in particular) have made people much less patient, which means sitting around for a 3 hour game is just tough for people now.  Just look next to you in the car when the light is red and see how many people are looking down at their phones.  We can't even wait out a red light, let alone a baseball game.  People still like golf though, but I don't look to see the attendance at the non-major tourneys.  Other sports tend to move faster and I think that caters more to our diminished attention spans.  Me, I still love baseball and it is my favorite sport...always will be.  But I'm middle aged!

Except football is mostly 3 hours of commercials and guys standing around.  Very little actual action in a football game.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, because Cal JR had charisma to spare.

It's baseballs job to properly market their players at the national level and they are doing a poor job of it.

 

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

He set a record that people said could never be broken.   Trout isn't setting any records. 

Ripken wouldn't have had nearly the appeal without the consecutive games streak.  Do agree that baseball does a poor job marketing their stars at the national level.  

Baseball has become more of a regional game in recent years.  

[atomic]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 Except football is mostly 3 hours of commercials and guys standing around.  Very little actual action in a football game.

Hockey and Soccer are more exciting.  Football is losing fans as well. 

[JR Oriole]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Except football is mostly 3 hours of commercials and guys standing around.  Very little actual action in a football game.

Very true.  And the flags drive me nuts.  Every time there is a good play, I am waiting to see the stupid yellow flag fly through the air to negate it.  I'll put my arms in the air and celebrate a touchdown....but i better wait to really celebrate until I don't see the damn FLAG on the bottom of the screen.  I swear half the kickoff returns that go more than 10 yards end up negated due to a block in the back.  Drives me nuts.  And then the replays.....and the catch rule....just awful. 

But I'll never understand the national football obsession and ironically I actually am a big football fan!  I really enjoy the sport except for the flags, penalties, and replays!  I just get sick of having it crammed down my throat 365 days a year. 

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

Very true.  And the flags drive me nuts.  Every time there is a good play, I am waiting to see the stupid yellow flag fly through the air to negate it.  I'll put my arms in the air and celebrate a touchdown....but i better wait to really celebrate until I don't see the damn FLAG on the bottom of the screen.  I swear half the kickoff returns that go more than 10 yards end up negated due to a block in the back.  Drives me nuts.  And then the replays.....and the catch rule....just awful. 

 But I'll never understand the national football obsession and ironically I actually am a big football fan!  I really enjoy the sport except for the flags, penalties, and replays!  I just get sick of having it crammed down my throat 365 days a year. 

I think sports should all eliminate the replay challenge.  Really ruins the games.  Especially in football. The automatic review of every scoring play is maddening.   I think the people pushing wrc +  and FIP are the same people pushing replay reviews.  

[JR Oriole]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

I think sports should all eliminate the replay challenge.  Really ruins the games.  Especially in football. The automatic review of every scoring play is maddening.   I think the people pushing wrc +  and FIP are the same people pushing replay reviews.  

I used to be a "get the call right no matter what" person.  And I still think there is merit in that.  But I have to admit, I get so bored and irritated during replays that I am willing to have the call be wrong just to move the damn game along.  Now, I am sure I would sing a different tune if my team was about to get screwed by a bad call.  But I just cannot stand to watch an official go to the sidelines and put their head in that booth to watch the monitor.  I have no patience for that.  Same thing in the NBA where they stand around the monitor to see whose fingertips the ball went off of.  Yawn. I just wish TV would stop showing replays bc all it does is give the fans something to complain about for eternity. 

[Mondo Trasho]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

All stats are made up.

And with that, I'm done wasting my time.

"If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything." - Ronald Coase