DJ Stewart and Carroll are called up

[Cumberbundy]

5 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I would love to see the list of non-top 10 draft pick catchers who came out in their rookie years and lit the game on fire.

 

I never thought I’d know a poster with such  curious predilections. 

[Cumberbundy]

4 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

I know assessments vary, but that’s a little scary. 

The most gifted player in the last 50 years didn’t get drafted in the top 20. Trout struggled at no level, he was nearly mlb ready right out of HS, but scouts missed what had to be fairly obvious in retrospect.

Jake Arrieta turns into a Cy Young award winner after being a bust in Baltimore. While Theo Epstein has called it the most lopsided deal he’s ever made, no other team was offering more, only one of 29 other teams saw a future Cy Young award winner, who had unlimited film available, as someone worth the minimal amount Chicago paid. Baseball is undoubtedly the most difficult to scout — the most nuanced sport to scout. 

This board gets divided over Schoop v Manny, guys like Muncy make spectacular comebacks, pitchers like Flaherty (STL) get no hype yet come up and have dominant starts to their career — in baseball there are 10, or more, differences between one guys 95mph fastball and the next guys. Peralta (Milw) can throw 90mph down the middle and get far more swing and misses than a Hicks (STL) gets at 103mph. Tanner Scott enters the year with an 80 fastball that is unquestionably going to be his best pitch for the entirety of his career, until 3 months later when his fastball is not quite as lively and his slider is as good as any in the game. 

Putting a grade on a baseball player is a good way to get yourself called an idiot, you have to have thick skin and a lot of patience to even consider taking up such an endeavor - I certainly don’t envy those who put that time in and then make their views public. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Cy Bundy said:

The most gifted player in the last 50 years didn’t get drafted in the top 20. Trout struggled at no level, he was nearly mlb ready right out of HS, but scouts missed what had to be fairly obvious in retrospect.

 

 

I've never seen the pre-draft scouting reports on Trout but I imagine they are pretty glowing.  The issue with Trout was that he played in NJ and the level of competition wasn't that good.  HS players from cold weather states are more of an unknown.

 

[Ohfan67]

9 minutes ago, Cy Bundy said:

The most gifted player in the last 50 years didn’t get drafted in the top 20. Trout struggled at no level, he was nearly mlb ready right out of HS, but scouts missed what had to be fairly obvious in retrospect.

Jake Arrieta turns into a Cy Young award winner after being a bust in Baltimore. While Theo Epstein has called it the most lopsided deal he’s ever made, no other team was offering more, only one of 29 other teams saw a future Cy Young award winner, who had unlimited film available, as someone worth the minimal amount Chicago paid. Baseball is undoubtedly the most difficult to scout — the most nuanced sport to scout. 

This board gets divided over Schoop v Manny, guys like Muncy make spectacular comebacks, pitchers like Flaherty (STL) get no hype yet come up and have dominant starts to their career — in baseball there are 10, or more, differences between one guys 95mph fastball and the next guys. Peralta (Milw) can throw 90mph down the middle and get far more swing and misses than a Hicks (STL) gets at 103mph. Tanner Scott enters the year with an 80 fastball that is unquestionably going to be his best pitch for the entirety of his career, until 3 months later when his fastball is not quite as lively and his slider is as good as any in the game. 

Putting a grade on a baseball player is a good way to get yourself called an idiot, you have to have thick skin and a lot of patience to even consider taking up such an endeavor - I certainly don’t envy those who put that time in and then make their views public. 

I hear you. I know scouting can only do so much. But I still think something is amiss if professional scouts who got to see Sisco a lot missed that he had a "slow bat".  I note that he's being diagnosed as having a slow bat after a very limited number of at bats and when his numbers against good fastballs are not glaringly worse than against other pitches: https://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=15694&position=C&pitch=all

Sisco had a terrible year. He may not be a major leaguer. I get that most prospects ultimately fail, especially middle of the road prospects. But if I was GM I would be very worried if the Orioles scouts, coaches, etc., didn't have an idea that Sisco had a slow bat. But then again, maybe Sisco is going to be a marginal major leaguer and he had a terrible two months or so. 

[Camden_yardbird]

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Things that make me frustrated:

Take the time to give a rational explanation that involves the art of scouting along with statistical evidence and then have someone reply to another poster with a passive aggressive dismissive generic statement.

Yep, I'm certainly down on him him because he didn't "light it on fire" offensively right away at the big league level. 

I work and make posts in my off time.  Sorry, if I didn't provide the high level of statistical evidence you needed I am sorry.

I think your response here is extremely unfair and puts a chilling effect on 1.  Part time (working) posters to this site.  2.  New posters who dont know where to find that information.  3.  More casual fans who may want to participate.

I dont think my post was passive aggressive.  I think it made a statement and asked for counter evidence, which in this case would be a lot easier to show than the research it would take to show all the catchers who took time to develop.  But...

In the current game: realmuto, Zunino, grandal.

Finally...where is your criticism of Frobbys post right above mine which makes arguably an even more snide remark.

[Teddy OBP]

8 hours ago, Cy Bundy said:

I bet DJ is relieved. Once Pdiddy is unwilling to give you a bit, your career is all but over. You are a humble and gracious man, it would not surprise me to find out you are the kind of guy who is willing to give his automobile a bit of gas when it’s running low. Pdiddy is a giver, he will be rewarded for his generous ways.

 

I’m a huge fan of the kid and know his family tangentially (good friends with good friends). I was supporting him FFS.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I work and make posts in my off time.  Sorry, if I didn't provide the high level of statistical evidence you needed I am sorry.

I think your response here is extremely unfair and puts a chilling effect on 1.  Part time (working) posters to this site.  2.  New posters who dont know where to find that information.  3.  More casual fans who may want to participate.

I dont think my post was passive aggressive.  I think it made a statement and asked for counter evidence, which in this case would be a lot easier to show than the research it would take to show all the catchers who took time to develop.  But...

In the current game: realmuto, Zunino, grandal.

Finally...where is your criticism of Frobbys post right above mine which makes arguably an even more snide remark.

Get a grip. "Chilling effect?" You got called out. Deal with it. 

You wanna be dismissive of my remarks, be prepared to get called out or just don't respond. Using the evidence of a generic statement is weak. If you don't have time to back up your remarks, then i suggest not trying to be dismissive of someone who actually put effort into the post.

Now your post is just whiny which is worse than being passive aggressive.

As for Frobby's post, he was talking about another poster's comments on Stewart. Not dismissing my post like you decided to.

[Cumberbundy]

45 minutes ago, pdiddy said:

I’m a huge fan of the kid and know his family tangentially (good friends with good friends). I was supporting him FFS.

I just think it’s funny when people say they are willing to give someone something they don’t actually have any say in, no intent to insult or cause you frustration, sir diddy. 

 

[Camden_yardbird]

On 9/13/2018 at 8:00 AM, Camden_yardbird said:

I would love to see the list of non-top 10 draft pick catchers who came out in their rookie years and lit the game on fire.

Catchers take time.

 

12 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Get a grip. "Chilling effect?" You got called out. Deal with it. 

You wanna be dismissive of my remarks, be prepared to get called out or just don't respond. Using the evidence of a generic statement is weak. If you don't have time to back up your remarks, then i suggest not trying to be dismissive of someone who actually put effort into the post.

Now your post is just whiny which is worse than being passive aggressive.

As for Frobby's post, he was talking about another poster's comments on Stewart. Not dismissing my post like you decided to.

My initial post, which I have quoted above, was not even that bad, and not dismissive. Rhetorically, it provided a counter point, and while was light on analysis, it provided a challenge to show evidence that there are catchers who are offensive powers early in their careers a list which is far smaller than the list of eventual good hitting catchers who did not come out as rookies and hit the ball well.

It didn't contain personal attacks, it didn't flame anyone, and it wasn't a rant.  I admit it was light on content, but not all posts on this site do.  Also, it did not dismiss your post, it quoted the OP, unless you post under a pseudonym?

As for your response, I find it disturbing.  Maybe the result of a frustrating season, and not what I would expect from the owner of the site.  As for my post, maybe it was a little whiny, what can I say, I was watching the 1st quarter of the ravens game (and my fantasy football opponent this week has AJ Green).

You can think that there isn't a chilling effect, but you should read some other Orioles boards.  I have seen numerous posts of people who tried to post here, but were turned off by what they saw as exactly the problem you are furthering, that the OH is elitist and not for the casual fan.  That people try the OH and leave because they feel singled out for not providing posts with sufficient statistical analysis.  I come here because I enjoy the more educated and statistical analysis that many posts contain, and I myself contribute to that analysis often.  But not every post is going to be well researched and provide statistical analysis.

As for this thread, the direction of the posts has been a very good discussion on the skill, or lack there of, of Orioles scouting and how it applies to recent prospects such as Sisco and Stewart, and why these players were seen as top prospects.  I think as far as why the Orioles are where they are with these players is that they, like many organizations, see a set of skills in players, all with flaws, but in the case of Stewart and exceptional eye at the plate, and are willing to accept those players with the thought that they can fix those flaws (his stance, lack of power).  They can't.  The Orioles have, in my opinion, a player development issue that causes bad drafting.  I think they have, at least under Dan, tried to find undervalued players with the thought that they could fix the problems that turned off other teams.  Its straight out of moneyball, and exactly what I would expect out of an old school GM trying to live in a new school world.  The problem is they can't.  I would imagine it's an issue of resources.  Despite our gripes, the Orioles have maintained a high MLB payroll, and probably at the detriment of money that would otherwise go into player development.  Teams like the cardinals, who frequently bring up quick to perform prospects, spend on both which mean their prospects are both ready and brought up to a roster that can support them.  Teams like Oakland spend on the player development at the expense of the major league roster.  I think the Orioles try and be good at everything as a middle income team and as a result end up being mediocre at a lot.  The proof for that is in the results.

As for Sisco, I am willing to say we will never see a MLB regular.  His higher prospect ranking was obviously partially due to his presence at the top of a bad system and he was never going to be an offensive juggernaut, but I think a lot of people thought he might have a high floor if not a high cieling.  The problem is if he's not a catcher his bat doesnt play to well anywhere else, and his shortcomings defensively seem to frustrate his batting development.  It wont happen, but I would love to see what he can do if he doesnt have to worry about catching, maybe as a second baseman, but I dont know if he can handle that defensively.  If he could he strikes me as a guy who could put up decent number there.  That said, not having to play catcher wont speed up his bat...or maybe it would if he could have a quicker lower body turn without having the rigors of catching.  I dont know if that's a real thing.  What I do know is many of the better hitting catchers we have in game today did not come out of the gates.  Players like Grandal or Zunino apprenticed or struggled for a season or two before getting what they are (which isn't a world beater either).  So my argument would be, that dismissing Sisco on the basis of his (mismanaged) rookie season makes little sense to me.

[Frobby]

On 9/12/2018 at 9:47 PM, webbrick2010 said:

Nice impression of Mark Trumbo by DJ Stewart in RF as he bumbled and stumbled into the wall as the ball landed next to him on the warning track. A first round draft pick. SMH.

You’ve been awfully quiet about Stewart lately.....

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

Stewart sure looked good today. I am rooting for the guy. The Orioles need him to pan out.

[BohKnowsBmore]

47 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

Stewart sure looked good today. I am rooting for the guy. The Orioles need him to pan out.

I hope we can deal Trumbo for something this offseason (maybe there will be a taker with only one year remaining).  I want Stewart to get as much run as possible along with Mancini and Davis in the LF/1B/DH rotation.

[theobird]

I like the looks of DJ Stewart. I think he should be given plenty of opportunity to play and show himself. That Lefty stroke of his would play well in OPACY. Not predicting anything with him, but he sure looks "hitterish" from my perspective.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

I'm warming up to him.

He had his issues in the minors and I wasn't that impressed with a first rounder. But his hitting looks to be picking up steam. I want to see more of him in the field, which is seems like Buck is avoiding a bit.

[webbrick2010]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

You’ve been awfully quiet about Stewart lately.....

I'm happy he is playing okay. I'm rooting for him. Seems like an extremely level headed kid.... but I don't think he is a ML starter... although he could be for the 2019 Orioles who will likely break thru 100 losses for a second consecutive season. Could have a ML career as one of those guys that hangs around and gets 350 AB's every year, if he can have an OBP over .350