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The way to win the World Series is to lose big for three years

wildcard

By wildcard
in Orioles Talk

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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22 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Machado played 82 games in 2014.  Gausman was 7-7 in 20 starts with an ERA+ of 110.  Bundy split time in 2014 between Aberdeen and Frederick.  Hobgood, 5 years removed from the draft, pitched 12 games for Frederick and was out of baseball after 6 games with Bowie the next year.  The success in 2014 had little to do with the previous draft picks.

The most valuable players on the 2014 team were Steve Pearce, Adam Jones, and Nelson Cruz.

I'm thrilled that Cruz and Pearce worked out so well for us but idk if we can rely on that strategy again.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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3 minutes ago, Aglets said:

The most valuable players on the 2014 team were Steve Pearce, Adam Jones, and Nelson Cruz.

I'm thrilled that Cruz and Pearce worked out so well for us but idk if we can rely on that strategy again.

Pearce,   You mean World Series MVP Pearce.  In 2024 when the O's are going for World Series Champs I might want Pearce on the team just for karma.

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TonySoprano Hangout Grand Counsel

TonySoprano

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23 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Come on.  When a third on the starting position players are not on the field its hard to win the World Series.   No Manny, no Wieters, no Davis   And that we the good Davis back then,

Gausman pitched well in the KC series.  He was only 2 full years out of college.   Bundy was 3 full years out of high school.  You couldn't have expected him to lead the rotation.   Manny was hurt.  

Gausman developed in to a 30 start, 180  pitcher with a 3.61 ERA before the defense went to crap.   Bundy went 13-9 in 170 IP and his best years are probably ahead of him. (maybe not with the O's).   They just had to have the time to develop and the O's should have put better players around them. Manny is an perennial All-Star and future HOFer.

I was responding directly to a comment about 2014.

Are you trying to make the case that Gausman's ERA went up a full run from 2016 to 2017 because of defense?  As to Bundy, the Orioles should've surrounded him with much taller outfielders to maybe stop some of the hits from going over the fences.  

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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31 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Pearce,   You mean World Series MVP Pearce.  In 2024 when the O's are going for World Series Champs I might want Pearce on the team just for karma.

Traded to the Red Sox mid-season this year for a prospect and $1.5M.   Pretty remarkable.

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WillyM Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

WillyM

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It seems like we've been complaining for the entire 21st century about how hard it is for the Orioles to contend in a division featuring perennial powerhouses like the Yankees and Red Sox.

So, when I saw this thread, I thought that this year's World Series champions would serve as an excellent counter-example to the proposition that a team needs to lose for three years in order to win the Series.  Surely it's been a long time since Boston has had three losing seasons.

Well, the last time they had three losing seasons in a row was 1992-94.

But to my surprise, I found that, although the Red Sox won 93 games in both 2016 and 2017, they had losing records in three of the four years from 2012-2015.

The only year of those four in which they had a winning record was 2013 - and they won the World Series that year.

If the Orioles want to prep themselves for a world championship by losing for three years out of four, I won't complain too much if they bring home an odd championship somewhere in the middle.  :)

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

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1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

Three years in a row?  While not 30th, the Orioles finished 26th or lower 4 years in a row.

2008 68-93 26th
2009 64-98 28th
2010 66-96 27th
2011 69-93 27th

resulted in draft picks
2009 Hobgood 5th
2010 Machado 3rd
2011 Bundy 4th
2012 Gausman 4th

WS appearances - 0.  It's much more than having the pick; it's making the right pick.

And developing the players correctly.    Not sure we did that with Gausman and perhaps Bundy.  

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NCRaven Hangout Grand Counsel

NCRaven

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10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they rushed Gausman.  Not sure what they could be e done about Bundy.  That ML contract hamstrung them.

Wish they had learned from Loewen (who is still only 34 years old and pitched in the Atlantic League last year; can't give up the dream).

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they rushed Gausman.  Not sure what they could be e done about Bundy.  That ML contract hamstrung them.

And he wasn’t quite the same pitcher after the injuries.   I can’t really blame the team for that.   Still, I have the strong feeling that he’s got the ability to be a much better, more consistent pitcher than he’s shown the last two years.   Because we’ve seen it at times.   

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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6 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Hey @wildcard I don't think they have much of a choice.  Just a hunch.

 

2 hours ago, atomic said:

I don't want 3 more last place seasons.  Plenty of teams have lost big for 3 seasons and didn't win any World Series. 

Hey @atomic I don't think you have a choice, either.  

It's gonna be pretty dark around here before we see any light.  Time to get a good blanket and get comfortable.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, wildcard said:

I doubt that.  They are going to need three drafts to the collect the players they need.

Who knows.   The Astros weren’t built just on the draft.    They made savvy trades and FA signings, and they signed international players.   

I do not expect this team to have a winning season in 2020, but we’ll see.    Baseball is constantly surprising   

 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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One issue will be seeing the impact on attendance here if the lose big for three years strategy is followed.  Houston’s attendance dropped somewhat during the bad three years but it was bumped up a bit by their moving to the AL West in 2013 which gave a novelty attendance boost for a year even though they were still awful on the field. 

One of the marketing strategies in Houston was a clear explanation from management and ownership to fans...open, constant and clear.  We have never had that here.  We might see a much bigger hit in attendance if we lose big and this communication style doesn’t change.  

 

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