How long does your blank check for Elias last?

[big_sparxx]

A complete organizational rebuild... on a timetable?

Why are we asking this question exactly?

I apologize for asking this... but who are we to expect anything by any certain period of time? 

I get it... we want a competitive organization, filled with up and coming studs that will set the mothership right for years to come.

Irony is that this vision was never important to any other GM... nor to the owner who abused his role. So now that there is a culture shift, we are expecting magic to happen as if it has always been the case? Apologies, but the concept of unrealistic expectations is stuff of Yankees/Red Sox lore. 1983 was our last championship. Lest we forget,  aside from the Rays, every other team in the division has won at least 1 world title since

We can sit back and reminisce of the past decade (how many WS appearances did we have?) and the questions still exist...

1) Where was the foundation of top minor league talent breaking down the walls to get into the ML team? 

2) Why do we expect Elias to be more than what the owners will let him be?

3) Why can't we just be pleased to have a GM that is doing what he can to rebuild an organization after years (YEARS) of neglect?

Sorry folks. We have a GM and a structure in place to do something different. I don't know squat about the nature of what he's had to do here. I'm not sure many... even the die-hards do, but to assert an idea that you need to see results in 2,3,4,5 or 10 years is your problem... not his.

I wonder if other teams have this conversation about their GMs.

[TradeAngelos]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:45 PM, SteveA said:

I think most of the restlessness is due to some of the often unprecedented signs of extreme penny pinching.  Whether that comes from ownership or Elias, it certainly begs the question if whether they will spend when it is appropriate for a contender.   (As far as I can tell the ONLY encouraging sign spending wise is that they are setting new team highs in the international market).

But rumors that uniform coach decisions are being made for cost cutting reasons, furloughs, asking arbitration players to take deferred money - all are concerning.  Obviously the pandemic is part of it but we don't hear about the other 29 teams doing some of these things other than the furloughs.

 

"Unprecedented" signs of penny pinching? Begs the question whether they will spend for a contender?  Does the 2014 offseason ring a bell, for a team coming off 3 straight years of "contending" and 96 wins yet couldn't find the pennies in the couch cushions to get deals closed? Hopefully the new owners will be in place when we are "ready to contend". And if the same ownership is still in place, I wouldn't hold my breath on them finding any money laying around. They will just have another excuse after excuse after excuse. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

"Unprecedented" signs of penny pinching? Begs the question whether they will spend for a contender?  Does the 2014 offseason ring a bell, for a team coming off 3 straight years of "contending" and 96 wins yet couldn't find the pennies in the couch cushions to get deals closed? Hopefully the new owners will be in place when we are "ready to contend". And if the same ownership is still in place, I wouldn't hold my breath on them finding any money laying around. They will just have another excuse after excuse after excuse. 

2014 Oriole Payroll- 108M (15th)

2015 Oriole Payroll - 119M (14th)

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

2014 Oriole Payroll- 108M (15th)

2015 Oriole Payroll - 119M (14th)

To this day, I’ll never understand why they were pretty stingy in the 2014-15 offseason and yet spent so much more in the 2015-16 offseason.   That blew up in their face in both offseasons.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

To this day, I’ll never understand why they were pretty stingy in the 2014-15 offseason and yet spent so much more in the 2015-16 offseason.   That blew up in their face in both offseasons.    

I don't either.  But it isn't fair to say they didn't spend at all in 2014-2015.  Honestly the spending in 2015-2016 was the more confusing part.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

"Unprecedented" signs of penny pinching? Begs the question whether they will spend for a contender?  Does the 2014 offseason ring a bell, for a team coming off 3 straight years of "contending" and 96 wins yet couldn't find the pennies in the couch cushions to get deals closed? Hopefully the new owners will be in place when we are "ready to contend". And if the same ownership is still in place, I wouldn't hold my breath on them finding any money laying around. They will just have another excuse after excuse after excuse. 

I used the word "unprecedented" to describe specific actions this off-season that they had NEVER been know to take before, such as trying to talk arb eligible players into deferrals, furloughing people, and possibly making coaching staff decisions on the basis of cost savings.

I didn't mean to imply they had never been cheap before.  Though I don't think 2014-15 are necessarily the best examples of cheapness in their history.

[TradeAngelos]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't either.  But it isn't fair to say they didn't spend at all in 2014-2015.  Honestly the spending in 2015-2016 was the more confusing part.

Who said that? And since when is a middle of the league payroll for a team trying to win a championship anything to brag about. It went to 19th after that, when it should have been 8-10. And the results spoke for themselves. All because they were arguing over relative chump change, per usual. 

[TradeAngelos]

51 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I used the word "unprecedented" to describe specific actions this off-season that they had NEVER been know to take before, such as trying to talk arb eligible players into deferrals, furloughing people, and possibly making coaching staff decisions on the basis of cost savings.

I didn't mean to imply they had never been cheap before.  Though I don't think 2014-15 are necessarily the best examples of cheapness in their history.

Oh trust me that was just one of the 567 examples that came to me off the top of my head. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't either.  But it isn't fair to say they didn't spend at all in 2014-2015.  Honestly the spending in 2015-2016 was the more confusing part.

Payroll was up in 2015, but they cut bait with Cruz, Miller and Markakis and didn’t really add anyone of note.   They did extend Hardy, which didn’t work out.   But otherwise any payroll growth was just incumbent players getting more expensive.   

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Payroll was up in 2015, but they cut bait with Cruz, Miller and Markakis and didn’t really add anyone of note.   They did extend Hardy, which didn’t work out.   But otherwise any payroll growth was just incumbent players getting more expensive.   

All three moves are defensible. 

The big moves of the 2015-2016, not so much.

[Frobby]

On 11/18/2018 at 7:23 AM, Frobby said:

I don’t think he really gets a blank check at all.    I want to see signs of progress in year one, in terms of filling key positions and seeing some changes in the way things are run.    And I expect that to continue throughout.    But in terms of seeing a winning team on the field, I don’t expect it until year four at the earliest.    I do believe that improvement in the record is likely this year, even if it’s only to 55 games or so, but that’s not how I’ll judge this season.    

I’d love to see some signs that analytics are being used to help existing players and that some of them are responding.    Not necessarily all of them.   This applies in the majors and the minors.

I’d love to see us hiring aggressively in Latin America and making at least a few early signings on July 2.    

And I’d like to see signs that the organization is on the same page, that people are buying in.    And I’d like to see some regular communication to the fans of what the plan is and how it’s being achieved.

Bump..I feel like things are right on schedule.   But this winter is the time to start augmenting the team Elias has developed.   

[csgordos]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Bump..I feel like things are right on schedule.   But this winter is the time to start augmenting the team Elias has developed.   

Other than a backup catcher and a true #2/3 starter, what are we augmenting?   Just curious your thoughts.  With who we have in the minors on the cusp in the next year and who is already young and up now there isn’t much room.  I don’t want players who you are paying for past production who will decline and block our future building blocks.  

[Sports Guy]

Frobby is becoming OFFNY.

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, csgordos said:

Other than a backup catcher and a true #2/3 starter, what are we augmenting?   Just curious your thoughts.  With who we have in the minors on the cusp in the next year and who is already young and up now there isn’t much room.  I don’t want players who you are paying for past production who will decline and block our future building blocks.  

Yeah, mostly top end pitching I think.   We’ve had a lot of pleasant surprises on the mound this year, but one reliable horse would really take a lot of pressure off the bullpen.  

[foxfield]

41 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Bump..I feel like things are right on schedule.   But this winter is the time to start augmenting the team Elias has developed.   

I agree, and while the painful part is behind us, the hard part begins this offseason.  FA signings, Trades, extensions.  All with a well stocked and cheap system.  It is a very exciting time and one in which ownership now comes in to play....as I think it is time to extend Elias.