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Matt Wieters

Dark Helmet

By Dark Helmet
in Orioles Talk

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I'd rather go with Wynns and maybe Susac/Cervenka as a backup than go with retreads. Nothing is worse than losing with players you know won't ever be part of a winning team here. 

I think that’s probably true of the three players mentioned above, as well as Wieters.   

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Dark Helmet Hangout Grand Counsel

Dark Helmet

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2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

If the team placed so much value on having a catching mentor they should have just kept Caleb Joseph. Targeting Matt Wieters makes no sense for this team at all. The coaches can help Sisco. That's what they're paid to do. 

I'm looking at it as more of who can mentor and produce. And Matt still put up better numbers than Caleb.  For nostalgia, sure I'd keep Caleb. He became a cult hero. But I'm not talking nostalgia.

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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39 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I'm looking at it as more of who can mentor and produce. And Matt still put up better numbers than Caleb.  For nostalgia, sure I'd keep Caleb. He became a cult hero. But I'm not talking nostalgia.

Offensively Wieters ranked 28th among catchers last season (33rd in WAR). I'm honestly not sure how much better he is than Joseph. 

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foxfield Hangout Grand Counsel

foxfield

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12 hours ago, Frobby said:

If salary were equal, would you rather have Joseph or Wieters at this point in their careers?    And no fair saying “neither.”

Counselor, given the specific and careful wording of your question, I would have to say....

I would not take either. ;) 

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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

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15 hours ago, Frobby said:

If salary were equal, would you rather have Joseph or Wieters at this point in their careers?    And no fair saying “neither.”

Wieters. The Nationals were 82-80 last season, but 41-35 in games he played (includes three games when he only pinch-hit). He posted a .739 OPS as a starter and 830 in games they won. 

Wieters always struck me as a leader on the field; the team's quarterback. I don't know if he still is today, but Joseph never struck me as more than a nice guy and cheerleader. 

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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1 hour ago, mdbdotcom said:

Wieters. The Nationals were 82-80 last season, but 41-35 in games he played (includes three games when he only pinch-hit). He posted a .739 OPS as a starter and 830 in games they won. 

Wieters always struck me as a leader on the field; the team's quarterback. I don't know if he still is today, but Joseph never struck me as more than a nice guy and cheerleader. 

I agree.

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bobmc Hangout Grand Counsel

bobmc

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14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Wieters back.  And I wasn't even a big fan of his while he was here.

Whoever they get, I just hope they're good at handling young pitchers.  It's so cliche, but a Crash Davis type.

Just wondering who these "young pitchers" with fragile egos and timidity are?  Hess?  Carroll?  Yefri? Ortiz?

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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If the O's wanted a veteran catcher, they would have just kept Caleb who is cheaper than Wieters, has similar defensive abilities to Wieters, is well-liked, and, like Wieters, doesn't bring a lot of offense to the table. 

Therefore, it makes more sense to simply resign Caleb for a million or so than pay Wieters the $5 or whatever it takes to get him. 

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wildbillhiccup Hangout Grand Counsel

wildbillhiccup

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6 minutes ago, interloper said:

If the O's wanted a veteran catcher, they would have just kept Caleb who is cheaper than Wieters, has similar defensive abilities to Wieters, is well-liked, and, like Wieters, doesn't bring a lot of offense to the table. 

Therefore, it makes more sense to simply resign Caleb for a million or so than pay Wieters the $5 or whatever it takes to get him. 

Joseph was actually better defensively than Wieters last year (and considerably cheaper). There's no argument for signing Wieters other than nostalgia. I really enjoy 90% of the discussion on this message board, but I really wish some posters would stop trying to live in the past. There's a big pool of free agents out there who aren't former Orioles and they're not that hard to find. Just Google "MLB free agents".  

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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14 minutes ago, interloper said:

If the O's wanted a veteran catcher, they would have just kept Caleb who is cheaper than Wieters, has similar defensive abilities to Wieters, is well-liked, and, like Wieters, doesn't bring a lot of offense to the table. 

Therefore, it makes more sense to simply resign Caleb for a million or so than pay Wieters the $5 or whatever it takes to get him. 

First of all, I hope nobody is suggesting paying Wieters $5 mm.  My guess is that the most he’ll get in the FA market is maybe half that amount.   

But I think it’s misleading to say that Joseph “like Wieters doesn’t bring a lot of offense to the table.”  Joseph is a career .623 OPS guy, while Wieters is a career .725 guy who had never had an OPS as low as .623 in a season.   Wieters isn’t a great offensive catcher, but he’s much better than Joseph and his floor on offense is much higher.

I’m not saying this to argue for Wieters’ return, I just don’t like the false equivalency here.  

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

First of all, I hope nobody is suggesting paying Wieters $5 mm.  My guess is that the most he’ll get in the FA market is maybe half that amount.   

But I think it’s misleading to say that Joseph “like Wieters doesn’t bring a lot of offense to the table.”  Joseph is a career .623 OPS guy, while Wieters is a career .725 guy who had never had an OPS as low as .623 in a season.   Wieters isn’t a great offensive catcher, but he’s much better than Joseph and his floor on offense is much higher.

I’m not saying this to argue for Wieters’ return, I just don’t like the false equivalency here.  

Ok well nice dismantling of my mostly throwaway comment I guess lol.

Just saying, they both kind of suck, and if we want a veteran catcher, we just let one go and he can be had for pennies, probably. We might as well not spend the extra money it would take to get Wieters' .725 career OPS which would not move the needle of anything whatsoever. Play the young guys. Wynns can handle the staff, IMO. 

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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17 hours ago, Dark Helmet said:

I'm looking at it as more of who can mentor and produce. And Matt still put up better numbers than Caleb.  For nostalgia, sure I'd keep Caleb. He became a cult hero. But I'm not talking nostalgia.

Why has Caleb become a cult hero?  He has been terrible.   Wieters had some great seasons with the club.  Seen tons of people wearing Wieters jersey's in the stands not too many wearing Caleb jerseys.  

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Just now, interloper said:

Ok well nice dismantling of my mostly throwaway comment I guess lol.

Just saying, they both kind of suck, and if we want a veteran catcher, we just let one go and he can be had for pennies, probably. We might as well not spend the extra money it would take to get Wieters' .725 career OPS which would not move the needle of anything whatsoever. Play the young guys. Wynns can handle the staff, IMO. 

I don’t feel well qualified to judge whether it would materially assist the pitchers to have a veteran major league catcher on hand to work with one of the younger catchers.    I’ll leave that to the guys in the front office to decide.    

Not that I want to make too much of it, but the O’s had a 5.00 ERA with Caleb behind the plate, 5.02 with Sisco and 6.02 with Wynns.

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