Harold Baines.....Lee Smith in Hall of Fame

[Frobby]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

and guys like Mussina, who deserves to be in, can't get in.

He will get in, either this year or some other time before his eligibility expires.    As will Edgar Martinez.

But I find this process pretty bizarre.    There are many, many players I’d induct before these two.  

[weams]

33 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Unfortunately, I think only Orioles fans remembered this happened today.  Red Sox fans probably laugh about it.  That crazy Big Papi, lol.

That "Roid Rage Papi"

[weams]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He will get in, either this year or some other time before his eligibility expires.    As will Edgar Martinez.

But I find this process pretty bizarre.    There are many, many players I’d induct before these two.  

MLB Radio posits the Power of Jerry Reinsdorf on full display and the repudiation of new stat analysis regarding Hall Eligibility. Also, forget excluding DH or Closers. They count. And Vote Edgar in. Don't think about leaving him for the veterans. 

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He will get in, either this year or some other time before his eligibility expires.    As will Edgar Martinez.

But I find this process pretty bizarre.    There are many, many players I’d induct before these two.  

i can understand fringe players not getting in or having trouble getting in. Like the Bobby Grichs of the world. Not every fan see thems as a fringe, and some see them as worthy.

But guys like Mussina, with a strong resume and metrics, having trouble getting in, is sad.

I also understand the DH debate, one dimensional players don't deserve to be in, is held by many. Personally, I am on the fence and torn about this issue.

[Moose Milligan]

Joe Posnanski wrote about Baines this morning.  If you guys aren't signed up for his Patreon, you are slippin'.  He writes all the time, it's great.  The columns get mailed to your inbox.  He wrote an individual column about each of the 10 people up for the vote this year.  

Anyway, here's how he summarized what it means for the HoF moving forward.  I'm not posting the whole thing since it's paid content, but I'd encourage you guys to go sign up for his stuff.

 

Quote

 

And some players have also been escorted through the back door like those guys in “Goodfellas.” Some of those players were clear oversights by the BBWAA, no question. Some were borderline cases.

And some were just plain bizarre, players you probably don’t know are even in the Hall of Fame — Tommy McCarthy, Ross Youngs, High Pockets Kelly, Lloyd Waner, Ray Schalk, Freddy Lindstrom, Travis Jackson, Earle Combs, Chick Hafey, we can go on like this for a while.

What does it mean? In the big picture, it generally means nothing. The committees vote in players, yes, but they don’t set precedents. When they elected Bill Mazeroski, that did nothing at all for Frank White, who has an almost identical Hall fo Fame case. When they voted in Tony Lazzeri, it did not set the stage for Bobby Grich, who was almost certainly a superior player. In 2018, a committee voted in Jack Morris. Four years earlier, a slightly different committee barely gave Tommy John a passing glance. And it’s hard to think of a single way that Morris’ career was better than John’s.

So, no, the Harold Baines vote won’t have any impact on the front door, will not do anything for Omar Vizquel or Todd Helton and certainly won’t do anything for Barry Bonds.

But I do think the Today’s Game Era Committee sent a clear and vivid message with this vote: They don’t like the way the Hall of Fame voting has been going the last couple of decades. They are not interested in advanced stats or really any stats. They will not discuss PED users (they dropped Mark McGwire from the ballot).

They will use their hearts and their guts to choose Hall of Famers.

Well, next year Tommy John and Don Mattingly and Dale Murphy and Ted Simmons and Dave Parker and Luis Tiant and Steve Garvey should all be on the Modern Baseball ballot. I imagine a couple of players like Lou Whitaker and Dwight Evans could be added. Every single one of those players has at least as good a case as Harold Baines; I’d argue every one of them has a better case.

And so next year we will see what this really means. We will see just how many players this vote-with-your-heart Hall of Fame committee will take through the back door.

 

https://www.patreon.com/JoeBlogs/posts

 

 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He will get in, either this year or some other time before his eligibility expires.    As will Edgar Martinez.

But I find this process pretty bizarre.    There are many, many players I’d induct before these two.  

Players inducted to the Hall between Duke Snider's first eligible year ('69 I think) and his actual induction in 1980 include Earle Combs, Rube Marquard, Harry Hooper, Chick Hafey, Jake Beckley, Ross Youngs, High Pockets Kelly, Freddie Lindstrom... and about 30 others.  The Hall's processes have always been "let's just make some stuff up and declare it sacred."

[Can_of_corn]

I will say that he makes one mistake in this piece.  He says PED users when I'm sure he means steroid users.

I'm willing to bet most of the folks in that committee don't consider amphetamines PEDs.

[DrungoHazewood]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Joe Posnanski wrote about Baines this morning.  If you guys aren't signed up for his Patreon, you are slippin'.  He writes all the time, it's great.  The columns get mailed to your inbox.  He wrote an individual column about each of the 10 people up for the vote this year.  

Anyway, here's how he summarized what it means for the HoF moving forward.  I'm not posting the whole thing since it's paid content, but I'd encourage you guys to go sign up for his stuff.

 

https://www.patreon.com/JoeBlogs/posts

 

 

 

Exactly.  They couldn't have sent a stronger message that detailed analysis of the facts will not be used as a Hall of Fame consideration.

(Edit: that's an exaggeration.  I mean, they could have elected Rich Amaral.  Or Batman.  Those would be stronger messages against fact-based decision making.)

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I will say that he makes one mistake in this piece.  He says PED users when I'm sure he means steroid users.

I'm willing to bet most of the folks in that committee don't consider amphetamines PEDs.

Since most of the committee used greenies regularly.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Since most of the committee used greenies regularly.

I'm sure some of them used steroids as well.

But which ones?

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Joe Posnanski wrote about Baines this morning.  If you guys aren't signed up for his Patreon, you are slippin'.  He writes all the time, it's great.  The columns get mailed to your inbox.  He wrote an individual column about each of the 10 people up for the vote this year.  

Anyway, here's how he summarized what it means for the HoF moving forward.  I'm not posting the whole thing since it's paid content, but I'd encourage you guys to go sign up for his stuff.

 

https://www.patreon.com/JoeBlogs/posts

 

 

 

Interesting, the one writer I support on Patreon lists how much they receive per month.  Joe chooses not to.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Interesting, the one writer I support on Patreon lists how much they receive per month.  Joe chooses not to.

Joe's a bad guy then.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Joe's a bad guy then.

I didn't say that.

I just find it interesting he doesn't release that info.

My guess is a lion share of his patrons are at the $3 tier.

The person I support is collecting almost 70K a year in contributions.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't say that.

I just find it interesting he doesn't release that info.

My guess is a lion share of his patrons are at the $3 tier.

The person I support is collecting almost 70K a year in contributions.

I didn't say you said that.  Just messin with you, lighten up Corn.  Jeez.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I didn't say you said that.  Just messin with you, lighten up Corn.  Jeez.

I just find the differing mind sets interesting. 

I wonder if Joe is just more private or if he feels that showing how much he gets would discourage others?