Electric Stuff

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm taking this news with the world's largest grain of salt, but I'd really like to see him make the team and start the season in the pen. Then let him replace GIvens as our closer when we trade him. Then revisit whether or not we want to stretch him back out to be a starter next spring. 

Glad its just a grain on salt to you.

[now]

1 hour ago, Whammer said:

Or shoulder . . .  or oblique . . . . .or knee . . . . or etc. etc.

I'm convinced he doesn't have the frame/body-type to pitch at the MLB level. 

Ron Guidry, or Bruce Kison, anyone?

[weams]

1 minute ago, now said:

Ron Guidry, or Bruce Kison, anyone?

Bruce died last season.

[Whammer]

45 minutes ago, now said:

Ron Guidry, or Bruce Kison, anyone?

Tim Lincecum?

[Moose Milligan]

There are some string beans body types that have lasted as pitchers.

Hunter Harvey doesn't seem to be one.  Would be thrilled to be wrong.

[eddie83]

Many years ago I talked to someone who did some scouting who was skeptical that Mussina would have a long career because of his body type.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

Many years ago I talked to someone who did some scouting who was skeptical that Mussina would have a long career because of his body type.  

That's just dumb.

@Luke-OH can say I'm wrong and I'm fine with that, I don't care.  I think people are pre-disposed to making comments about a pitchers body type in an effort to make it sound like they know what they're talking about.  But what they can't tell and what they don't know is how strong those ligaments and tendons are in the pitchers arm.  

It requires no effort and no special insight to look at a guy like Harvey, Lincecum, Ron Guidry, Randy Johnson and anyone else who looks like a pile skin and bones and go "Yeah, his body type is a cause of concern."  Sure, there are probably guys out there that are stick thin and have broken down, just like there are guys out there who've got a lot of meat on them and have broken down, too.  

[Enjoy Terror]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It requires no effort and no special insight to look at a guy like Harvey, Lincecum, Ron Guidry, Randy Johnson and anyone else who looks like a pile skin and bones and go "Yeah, his body type is a cause of concern."  Sure, there are probably guys out there that are stick thin and have broken down, just like there are guys out there who've got a lot of meat on them and have broken down, too.  

I guess that depends on how many in each pile don’t work out. I’d think a scout would have enough experience to lean one way or another, but of course when someone breaks the mold, they suddenly have no idea what they’re talking about.

[Moose Milligan]

Speaking of Guidry, holy $#%* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Guidry

Quote

He was nearly sent to the Baltimore Orioles as part of a five-for-five MLB trade deadline deal on June 15, 1976, but the Yankees didn't want to give up any more left-handed pitchers beyond the three (Scott McGregor, Tippy Martinez and Rudy May) upon which the two teams had already agreed.^[4]

Dude....DUDE.  Could the Orioles GM at the time have been like "Know what?  It's cool.  Keep Rudy May, we'll just take Guidry."

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I guess that depends on how many in each pile don’t work out. I’d think a scout would have enough experience to lean one way or another, but of course when someone breaks the mold, they suddenly have no idea what they’re talking about.

My point (kinda) is that they all break down at some point or another.  

But we can try to make piles and sort it out.  I mean, in the skinny pile I'm also placing Dwight Gooden (coke keeps some weight off) and Tom Glavine, too.  

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's just dumb.

@Luke-OH can say I'm wrong and I'm fine with that, I don't care.  I think people are pre-disposed to making comments about a pitchers body type in an effort to make it sound like they know what they're talking about.  But what they can't tell and what they don't know is how strong those ligaments and tendons are in the pitchers arm.  

It requires no effort and no special insight to look at a guy like Harvey, Lincecum, Ron Guidry, Randy Johnson and anyone else who looks like a pile skin and bones and go "Yeah, his body type is a cause of concern."  Sure, there are probably guys out there that are stick thin and have broken down, just like there are guys out there who've got a lot of meat on them and have broken down, too.  

I used to buy into the effort in delivery was a warning sign or the body type is a warning sign narrative. I can't find any data to back that up.

There is something to do with timing and position of arm at force transfer. But any mechanical signals of potential injury are blurred by the different training/throwing histories, genetic differences, and strength differences. So it's hard to really suss out what's a red flag and what isn't.

That's not to say the quality of a delivery or a guy's frame isn't important, it takes a special, well conditioned athlete to hold velocity and have good command with a funky or max effort delivery. And bigger frames and longer levers make velocity easier to achieve. 

There have been some studies showing strength is a major factor in avoiding injury. Forearm/grip strength, lat strength, glute strength primarily if I remember correctly. I'll link the study if I can find it.

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I used to buy into the effort in delivery was a warning sign or the body type is a warning sign narrative. I can't find any data to back that up.

There is something to do with timing and position of arm at force transfer. But any mechanical signals of potential injury are blurred by the different training/throwing histories, genetic differences, and strength differences. So it's hard to really suss out what's a red flag and what isn't.

That's not to say the quality of a delivery or a guy's frame isn't important, it takes a special, well conditioned athlete to hold velocity and have good command with a funky or max effort delivery. And bigger frames and longer levers make velocity easier to achieve. 

There have been some studies showing strength is a major factor in avoiding injury. Forearm/grip strength, lat strength, glute strength primarily if I remember correctly. I'll link the study if I can find it.

I think I know what you're talking about, but can you please define force transfer?

And yes, genetic differences is a much more sophisticated way of saying what I meant before.  

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Whammer said:

Or shoulder . . .  or oblique . . . . .or knee . . . . or etc. etc.

I'm convinced he doesn't have the frame/body-type to pitch at the MLB level. 

Or he hits his head on a door, or gets his hand stuck in a blender....lol

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

There are some string beans body types that have lasted as pitchers.

Hunter Harvey doesn't seem to be one.  Would be thrilled to be wrong.

Bruce Kison. 

[jabba72]

Already 24 years old, and his career high in innings is 87 in 2014. The good thing is his arm should have alot of mileage left if he ever can stay off the DL.