Tony Clark Keeping His Eye on the Orioles

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

Apples and oranges. Why should physicians care about medical students?  Because they are the physicians of tomorrow.  

Are physicians in a union?  Does the physicians union go out of their way to collect bargain things for the medical students?

The MLBPA has not only shown no desire to help non-union members they have actively hurt them.

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are physicians in a union?  Does the physicians union go out of their way to collect bargain things for the medical students?

The MLBPA has not only shown no desire to help non-union members they have actively hurt them.

I know. I know...what I am saying is that it is wrong.  ML players do have an obligation and vested interest in the welfare and development of players in the minorsnd should insist their union do so. 

No, what we have is thousands of years of Hippocratic responsibility for each generation to teach and train the physicians of tomorrow.   And so medical student training, resident training, conditions, pay, on call hours have been the focus of the AMA forever. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, tntoriole said:

I know. I know...what I am saying is that it is wrong.  ML players do have an obligation and vested interest in the welfare and development of players in the minorsnd should insist their union do so. 

No, what we have is thousands of years of Hippocratic responsibility for each generation to teach and train the physicians of tomorrow.   And so medical student training, resident training, conditions, pay, on call hours have been the focus of the AMA forever. 

I think that for what it would cost them the union should try and improve the life of the guys in the minors.  I think it would be worth it in positive public perception.

Sadly they have taken the opposite approach and harmed those not in the union to further their own agendas.  Thankfully the public isn't all that aware of that history.

[Frobby]

Just now, tntoriole said:

I know. I know...what I am saying is that it is wrong.  ML players do have an obligation and vested interest in the welfare and development of players in the minorsnd should insist their union do so. 

No, what we have is thousands of years of Hippocratic responsibility for each generation to teach and train the physicians of tomorrow.   And so medical student training, resident training, conditions, pay, on call hours have been the focus of the AMA forever. 

I have never understood the culture that allows young doctors to be on call for ridiculous lengths of time.    How can that possibly be good for patients, to be seen by some doctor who’s been working 18-20 hours straight?    I realize there have been some changes in the last decade or so, but why the heck did that take so long?    Strikes me as hypocritical, not Hippocratical.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that for what it would cost them the union should try and improve the life of the guys in the minors.  I think it would be worth it in positive public perception.

Sadly they have taken the opposite approach and harmed those not in the union to further their own agendas.  Thankfully the public isn't all that aware of that history.

Are you not a member of the public?   Do you have access to some secret information that the rest of us don’t have?

I’d love to see the union use some leverage to increase MiL salaries.    I’m not sure it’s their moral obligation to do it, or that the public at large would really care.    But it would be a good thing.    Maybe what Toronto did will encourage other teams to do the same.  

[TonySoprano]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I have never understood the culture that allows young doctors to be on call for ridiculous lengths of time.    How can that possibly be good for patients, to be seen by some doctor who’s been working 18-20 hours straight?    I realize there have been some changes in the last decade or so, but why the heck did that take so long?    Strikes me as hypocritical, not Hippocratical.

When my wife was a resident, she worked 100 hours a week every week for 4 years, in 36 hour shifts.  On an hourly basis, she could've made more working at McDonald's.  Do you want fries with that?

Back to Clark's quote, my assumption is the plan that he's keeping an eye on is player salaries.  If they don't meet his union's approval....?

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Are you not a member of the public?   Do you have access to some secret information that the rest of us don’t have?

I’d love to see the union use some leverage to increase MiL salaries.    I’m not sure it’s their moral obligation to do it, or that the public at large would really care.    But it would be a good thing.    Maybe what Toronto did will encourage other teams to do the same.  

Not sure what you mean.

The MLBPA has collectively bargained:

1. Draft slots
2. No ML contracts for draftees
3. International sloting

All three of those hurt non-union members.

How much do you think Rutschman would get under the old system?  He'd pretty much be a lock for a ML contract as well right?

Diaz got 15.5M how much did VVM get?

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I have never understood the culture that allows young doctors to be on call for ridiculous lengths of time.    How can that possibly be good for patients, to be seen by some doctor who’s been working 18-20 hours straight?    I realize there have been some changes in the last decade or so, but why the heck did that take so long?    Strikes me as hypocritical, not Hippocratical.

There are many reasons associated with the training model of physicians which was developed at Johns Hopkins in the early to mid 20th century where the terms “resident and house staff” were invented and trainees lived in the hospital complex for years of training.

The care of acutely ill patients in a hospital setting involves many complex factors, however, a team approach has been demonstrated to be the most effective for both patient care and training... i.e.  an intern, a second year resident, a senior resident and an attending all share the care of patients with a hierarchy of responsibilities based on experience.  

One of the reasons historically for medical and surgical residents to have long stretches of continuous patient care is so that someone can see that acute situation or episode through to completion without necessarily just signing it off to the next resident or intern who has not seen you at all.  i.e if pilots in training only flew part of a flight without landing let’s say and then checked out, their training would be incomplete no matter how many “hours” they might accumulate.   

Clearly, the extremely extended hours became, on balance, more detrimental to care and to trainees than helpful, and major changes have been implemented....but I and many generations of older physicians saw many patients through a surgical or medical crisis in a hospital as part of the necessary experience of seeing how an illness course can vary and the many different unexpected outcomes that you must learn to manage. 

 

[tntoriole]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that for what it would cost them the union should try and improve the life of the guys in the minors.  I think it would be worth it in positive public perception.

Sadly they have taken the opposite approach and harmed those not in the union to further their own agendas.  Thankfully the public isn't all that aware of that history.

If I was one of those minor leaguers who got harmed, I would then be in the union’s face as a big leaguer.   

[sportsfan8703]

We’re clearly tanking. Where was the Union when the Sox and Yanks won every year with 37 year olds because they were roiding?  Clark needs to trust the process. 

[UpstateNYfan]

Perhaps Clark will offer a rebate for the Davis deal.

[Barnaby Graves]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

in 36 hour shifts

I don't want to derail the thread, and, no offense to your wife of course, but even if she was Dr. House I wouldn't want to be seen by someone who'd been working 36 hour shifts.  That is lunacy.  Did that include sleep?  It had to, right?

Back to this thread, in my perfect world they'd scrap the guaranteed deals and restructure the entire thing to favor young, dynamic players who are playing well, because that is what I want to watch.  This whole thing where everybody has to watch Albert Pujols suck for 7 years is so stupid, bad for fans, bad for the game as far as I can tell.  It should be like, Mike Trout comes up, gets 10.5 WAR in his first full year, and then negotiates a highly-paid, shorter-term contract, or goes to arbitration where the guidelines for salary are more based on recent performance and not service time + previous salary.

I am pro-union in general and think the players deserve some very significant slice of the money they make the owners, so maybe there's richer salary floors, or the minors are unionized to some degree as well.  Let someone figure out the details.  But for now I see a system where a huge number of guys subsist on poverty wages, a lucky few get to make a reasonable income, and their production is outsized relative to their salary so they can supplement some guys who are basically riding golden parachutes into the twilight of their careers.  If Tony Clark doesn't like it, maybe he should buy tickets to watch Chris Davis stare into the abyss on strike 3 and see how I feel about how this league works...

[backwardsk]

At least somebody is going to watch this (edited) team.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, TonySoprano said:

 Do you want fries with that?

 

Uh, yeah?  And two hot apple pies for a dollar, please.  To go.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Uh, yeah?  And two hot apple pies for a dollar, please.  To go.

You know they changed them right?  Different filling and they don't fry them anymore.