Can we see Stewart, Cisco, Mountcastle instead of Martin, Severino, and Rickard?

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

That made me laugh out loud.

[HowAboutThat]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Santander: .604 OPS in 47 major league games, .695 OPS in AA last year and had never played AAA until this year, where he currently has a .703 OPS.     What’s your evidence that he’d be an upgrade?   Over who?

Gilmartin: Yeah, he’s respectable and if they add him to the 40-man at some point, fine.    But I certainly don’t think they’re holding him back because they’re trying to lose.   

Stewart: He’s the toughest case here.    He was underwhelming in AAA last year but made a nice showing in a SSS call-up in September, and struggled a bit in AAA this April (.701 OPS) but has been ridiculous over the last couple of weeks.    I’m still not really putting him in the “nothing left to prove” category.    If he’s hitting well in July, I might be there.    

Long story short, it’s not that obvious that these guys are upgrades, and certainly not obvious that they are being held back because Elias wants to lose more games.   

Regarding Santander, I think he would be an upgrade over anyone, but that’s really not the point. The point is the guys on the big team are playing sloppy and unrepentant ball. Bring up somebody to replace, say, Rickard, Since a signal that you’re not going to put up with sloppy play. It’s not necessarily that Santander is better, No I think that might be the case, it’s that he’s different.

[Camden_yardbird]

Must have been a frustrating loss last night.  (Spoilers: I know it was).

A thread like this (DFA! Bring up!) And the corresponding number of pages is always a surefire sign.

Q: How bad was last nights loss?  

A:  Looks like a 8 pager, 3 DFAs.

That's bad.  Must have been a big blown lead, with a bad defensive play, to the Yankees or Red Sox.

[HowAboutThat]

40 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Santander: .604 OPS in 47 major league games, .695 OPS in AA last year and had never played AAA until this year, where he currently has a .703 OPS.     What’s your evidence that he’d be an upgrade?   Over who?

Gilmartin: Yeah, he’s respectable and if they add him to the 40-man at some point, fine.    But I certainly don’t think they’re holding him back because they’re trying to lose.   

Stewart: He’s the toughest case here.    He was underwhelming in AAA last year but made a nice showing in a SSS call-up in September, and struggled a bit in AAA this April (.701 OPS) but has been ridiculous over the last couple of weeks.    I’m still not really putting him in the “nothing left to prove” category.    If he’s hitting well in July, I might be there.    

Long story short, it’s not that obvious that these guys are upgrades, and certainly not obvious that they are being held back because Elias wants to lose more games.   

 To continue, almost everybody on the team has negative WAR. Even if we replace a guy with somebody who is replacement level, the difference, though marginal in terms of performance, gives an opportunity to reward good effort and punish bad effort. Remember, we’re in a situation where attitude and hustle counts for a lot. The guys on the big team are playing really bad fundamental ball,  it’s so sloppy it’s embarrassing, and the one and only thing we can do right now is punish the sloppy players by sending them down, and reward good effort in the minors by bringing a guy up. It doesn’t really matter whether he’s “better“ he will certainly work harder. And the reason it can be argued that by not making these moves, Mike is deliberately Handicapping the team, is exactly this issue of attitude and hustle. If we had played a clean game last night we would’ve won, but because there are no repercussions for the slop, there’s no incentive for anybody to play better tonight.

[Can_of_corn]

42 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Santander: .604 OPS in 47 major league games, .695 OPS in AA last year and had never played AAA until this year, where he currently has a .703 OPS.     What’s your evidence that he’d be an upgrade?   Over who?

Gilmartin: Yeah, he’s respectable and if they add him to the 40-man at some point, fine.    But I certainly don’t think they’re holding him back because they’re trying to lose.   

Stewart: He’s the toughest case here.    He was underwhelming in AAA last year but made a nice showing in a SSS call-up in September, and struggled a bit in AAA this April (.701 OPS) but has been ridiculous over the last couple of weeks.    I’m still not really putting him in the “nothing left to prove” category.    If he’s hitting well in July, I might be there.    

Long story short, it’s not that obvious that these guys are upgrades, and certainly not obvious that they are being held back because Elias wants to lose more games.   

I'm in two camps the "What does he have left to learn at AAA?" camp and the "Let's see what we got." camp.  Both camps think promoting Stewart is a good idea.

[orioles22]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Santander: .604 OPS in 47 major league games, .695 OPS in AA last year and had never played AAA until this year, where he currently has a .703 OPS.     What’s your evidence that he’d be an upgrade?   Over who?

Gilmartin: Yeah, he’s respectable and if they add him to the 40-man at some point, fine.    But I certainly don’t think they’re holding him back because they’re trying to lose.   

Stewart: He’s the toughest case here.    He was underwhelming in AAA last year but made a nice showing in a SSS call-up in September, and struggled a bit in AAA this April (.701 OPS) but has been ridiculous over the last couple of weeks.    I’m still not really putting him in the “nothing left to prove” category.    If he’s hitting well in July, I might be there.    

Long story short, it’s not that obvious that these guys are upgrades, and certainly not obvious that they are being held back because Elias wants to lose more games.   

I'd like to see AAA guys playing at an all-star level, or close to it, in their league before forcing their way to the majors. I guess Stewart may be getting close with his play of late, but it's not like he's leading the league in several big categories.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I'd like to see AAA guys playing at an all-star level, or close to it, in their league before forcing their way to the majors. I guess Stewart may be getting close with his play of late, but it's not like he's leading the league in several big categories.

Why?

If they never reach your lofty goal just let them sit in AAA purgatory while you have less talented retreads manning the ML team?

This makes no sense to me.

Sorry DJ I know this is your fourth year in Norfolk but by gum you didn't make the All Star game last year nor did you lead the league in RBI.

[LookinUp]

That's a decent rule of thumb. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LookinUp said:

That's a decent rule of thumb. 

I'm pretty sure it isn't.

If Norfolk's x-baseman isn't the best in the league he doesn't ever get promoted?

[orioles22]

Guys we are moving up at other levels, like McCoy and Knight, were clearly at all-star levels in their respective leagues. Rodriguez is in that category also.

You don't have to be the best at a position to be an all-star. If you have two teams and two at each position, you have four second basemen, for instance. I'd like our guy to be in the top 3-4 in the league before he goes to the major leagues. If not and he stays at AAA too long, we just move on to someone else, which seems to happen quite a bit when you see all the AAAA guys who seem to hang around forever, moving from organization to organization.

[LookinUp]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm pretty sure it isn't.

If Norfolk's x-baseman isn't the best in the league he doesn't ever get promoted?

I'm not saying that. I support the idea more figuratively than literally. I'm guessing it would be impossible to pull off across levels in the real world.

People in this thread are often saying that we should promote one guy who doesn't belong in the majors because another guy who doesn't belong is there now.  I understand that you have to fill out the teams and you probably want a org that is scrapping to get every ounce that they can at the ML level. However, unless you're sure you're dealing with an org guy, I don't see any benefit in promoting a league average AAA guy to the majors, either for him and usually for the ML team too.

Some might say that you have to find out what you have. I'd argue that you are finding out what you have when your guy is league average in AAA. Make them earn it and eventually you'll get the ML team you need.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LookinUp said:

I'm not saying that. I support the idea more figuratively than literally. I'm guessing it would be impossible to pull off across levels in the real world.

People in this thread are often saying that we should promote one guy who doesn't belong in the majors because another guy who doesn't belong is there now.  I understand that you have to fill out the teams and you probably want a org that is scrapping to get every ounce that they can at the ML level. However, unless you're sure you're dealing with an org guy, I don't see any benefit in promoting a league average AAA guy to the majors, either for him and usually for the ML team too.

Some might say that you have to find out what you have. I'd argue that you are finding out what you have when your guy is league average in AAA. Make them earn it and eventually you'll get the ML team you need.

Except occasionally guys surprise you and perform better in the majors.

I think a much better rule of thumb is, does this player still have growing to do that can be accomplished at his current level?

I don't think Stewart does.  I don't think Sisco does.  I think the former is a fully formed player and that the latter can learn better in the majors.

 

I also think your last line is ludicrous.   Either they have the talent or they don't.  Keeping guys in AAA until they are 27 isn't going to fix your ML roster issues.  If they haven't reached whatever arbitrary goals you set for them when they run out of options do you DFA them without ever letting them hit the majors?

[orioles22]

4 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I'm not saying that. I support the idea more figuratively than literally. I'm guessing it would be impossible to pull off across levels in the real world.

People in this thread are often saying that we should promote one guy who doesn't belong in the majors because another guy who doesn't belong is there now.  I understand that you have to fill out the teams and you probably want a org that is scrapping to get every ounce that they can at the ML level. However, unless you're sure you're dealing with an org guy, I don't see any benefit in promoting a league average AAA guy to the majors, either for him and usually for the ML team too.

Some might say that you have to find out what you have. I'd argue that you are finding out what you have when your guy is league average in AAA. Make them earn it and eventually you'll get the ML team you need.

Exactly. We talk about replacing guys in the majors who are bad with guys in AAA who are pretty average there. I'd like to get the organization back to the time when we could call up a real prospect, not just someone to "see what he's got."

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Guys we are moving up at other levels, like McCoy and Knight, were clearly at all-star levels in their respective leagues. Rodriguez is in that category also.

You don't have to be the best at a position to be an all-star. If you have two teams and two at each position, you have four second basemen, for instance. I'd like our guy to be in the top 3-4 in the league before he goes to the major leagues. If not and he stays at AAA too long, we just move on to someone else, which seems to happen quite a bit when you see all the AAAA guys who seem to hang around forever, moving from organization to organization.

I'd say McCoy and Knight were not assigned aggressively in the first place.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, orioles22 said:

Exactly. We talk about replacing guys in the majors who are bad with guys in AAA who are pretty average there. I'd like to get the organization back to the time when we could call up a real prospect, not just someone to "see what he's got."

You need "real prospects" to do that.

You also need 1-2 win guys to fill out your roster.

You can't stockpile studs in the minors like the Yankees did in the 50's.