Should Rutschman stay at catcher?

[Roll Tide]

2 Bagger

 

 

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[Sessh]

5 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Biggio allowed 434 SBs in 392 games started at catcher. Just a 23% CS rate. He definitely wasn't a good catch and throw guy. 

While that is pretty awful, I can't find a single source even mentioning this as a reason for the change. This article has some interesting information about how it went down. He was an all-star catcher in his last year at the position, so it doesn't seem as though his defensive ability was looked down upon much if at all.

[Sessh]

Here's another article from 1992.

Quote

Biggio's shift from National League All-Star catcher to second base is most unusual, however, a move the Astros were willing to take only because of Biggio's exceptional talents.

He has averaged 22 stolen bases per season the last three years.

"Running is a big part of Craig's game, and it didn't make much sense to let him lose this," Astros General Manager Bill Wood said Sunday before the Astros played the Atlanta Braves before their largest home crowd this spring - 6,223 at Osceola County Stadium.

 

[Luke-OH]

6 minutes ago, Sessh said:

While that is pretty awful, I can't find a single source even mentioning this as a reason for the change. This article has some interesting information about how it went down. He was an all-star catcher in his last year at the position, so it doesn't seem as though his defensive ability was looked down upon much if at all.

Defensive ability has very little to do with all star selections. 

To get back to the main subject of this thread. 

I'll make an analogy.

Playing Rutschman at 1B instead of C would be like taking a pitcher who throws 95-98mph and pitches to a 2.50 ERA and telling him to throw it softer 90-93 so he doesn't risk shortening his career, resulting in a 4.00 ERA. 

[atomic]

If he wasn't going to be a catcher why would we draft him #1 overall?

[Sessh]

10 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Playing Rutschman at 1B instead of C would be like taking a pitcher who throws 95-98mph and pitches to a 2.50 ERA and telling him to throw it softer 90-93 so he doesn't risk shortening his career, resulting in a 4.00 ERA. 

I don't think that's a great analogy since a pitcher with a 4.00 ERA is much less effective than one with a 2.50 ERA. Bad mechanics are at the root of pitcher injuries. At least, that's what it seems like to me. Again, I am not advocating Rutschman never play catcher again. I am saying if he is an elite offensive asset, he should not be there full-time. I'm saying he should be a C/1B, NOT only a 1B. No one, not even pitchers, take more physical abuse than catchers do and it's not even close. This unfortunately includes head injuries which we no longer tell guys to play through or shake it off.

Playing your best offensive asset at that position full-time is reckless from a team standpoint especially if you have someone who can play an above average catcher and is not irreplaceable. It's like going off-roading in a limited production Ferrari. Things will probably be fine for awhile, but you will eventually ruin it and it could have been prevented. Doing the same thing in a Corolla isn't so bad because, well, it's a Corolla. They're a dime a dozen.

[jamalshw]

Biggio was moved from catcher to protect his legs and one of his better assets, his speed. I don't believe speed is one of Rutschman's biggest selling points. And while the official reasoning for moving Biggio was to protect his other assets, it is made A LOT easier by him not being a top tier defender at the position. Rutschman's ability behind the dish is nearly as big of a selling point as his strengths beside it. If his defense proves worse than reports indicate OR he develops into a true superstar hitter at the big league level that's when I consider moving him. Not until then for me.

[makoman]

18 minutes ago, Sessh said:

I don't think that's a great analogy since a pitcher with a 4.00 ERA is much less effective than one with a 2.50 ERA. Bad mechanics are at the root of pitcher injuries. At least, that's what it seems like to me. Again, I am not advocating Rutschman never play catcher again. I am saying if he is an elite offensive asset, he should not be there full-time. I'm saying he should be a C/1B, NOT only a 1B. No one, not even pitchers, take more physical abuse than catchers do and it's not even close. This unfortunately includes head injuries which we no longer tell guys to play through or shake it off.

Playing your best offensive asset at that position full-time is reckless from a team standpoint especially if you have someone who can play an above average catcher and is not irreplaceable. It's like going off-roading in a limited production Ferrari. Things will probably be fine for awhile, but you will eventually ruin it and it could have been prevented. Doing the same thing in a Corolla isn't so bad because, well, it's a Corolla. They're a dime a dozen.

It's more like the off-roading is a race you really want to win. The Ferrari is way better than the Corolla, so you have a better chance of winning. And you only have control of and responsibility for the Ferrari for the weekend that you're racing, if the Ferrari is broken then after that it's not your problem anymore.

Also, you don't buy the Ferrari if you aren't going to open it up and use it like you're supposed to use it. If you're going to just drive it in 35 MPH zones because you're afraid of breaking it then you might as well get the Vaughn model, and you probably could have saved some money.

[Mendoza Line]

I view it as you have 9 positions on the field you have to fill. In a perfect world, you'd be above average at as many possible positions to be a WS contender. If you move a guy off of catcher to like first base, who potentially could be the best in the league for a chunk of his career at catcher, you still need to find another guy be that above average guy at catcher. Unless you consider catcher a dispensable position and rather focus your resources at other positions.

[waroriole]

56 minutes ago, atomic said:

If he wasn't going to be a catcher why would we draft him #1 overall?

Didn’t he also have the best bat?

[Sessh]

20 minutes ago, makoman said:

It's more like the off-roading is a race you really want to win. The Ferrari is way better than the Corolla, so you have a better chance of winning. And you only have control of and responsibility for the Ferrari for the weekend that you're racing, if the Ferrari is broken then after that it's not your problem anymore.

Also, you don't buy the Ferrari if you aren't going to open it up and use it like you're supposed to use it. If you're going to just drive it in 35 MPH zones because you're afraid of breaking it then you might as well get the Vaughn model, and you probably could have saved some money.

A Ferrari isn't built for off-roading. It will fall apart eventually unless it's been heavily modified to handle the abuse. Ferrari's aren't used in rally. Cars like Corollas, Golfs, Peugeots, Mini Coopers, Lancias and so on are used in rally. Not Ferraris or any high powered sports cars. It's too expensive. The closest you'd probably get would be Lancers or Imprezas, but they're not million dollar supercars.

Opening up a Ferrari is not off-roading it nor is that how you're supposed to use it. They are supercars built for road tracks paved with concrete, not dirt tracks or off-road racing.

[makoman]

8 minutes ago, Sessh said:

A Ferrari isn't built for off-roading. It will fall apart eventually unless it's been heavily modified to handle the abuse. Ferrari's aren't used in rally. Cars like Corollas, Golfs, Peugeots, Mini Coopers, Lancias and so on are used in rally. Not Ferraris or any high powered sports cars. It's too expensive. The closest you'd probably get would be Lancers or Imprezas, but they're not million dollar supercars.

Opening up a Ferrari is not off-roading it nor is that how you're supposed to use it. They are supercars built for road tracks paved with concrete, not dirt tracks or off-road racing.

This was your analogy, but fine, carry on being the only one who believes the best catching prospect in baseball shouldn't really catch.

[Frobby]

It’s too bad there wasn’t a poll associated with this thread.  

I don’t think the question is unreasonable.    If Rutschman were a mediocre defender, you might well conclude that the advantage of having a great hitting catcher was outweighed by the mediocre defense, the risk of injury and general shortening of career, etc.   But with him almost universally rated a plus defender, it’s much harder to justify moving him, especially since any shortening of his career won’t likely have much impact in the years the Orioles control him.   

[NCRaven]

If we wanted a first baseman, we would have drafted Andrew Vaughn.  He was the consensus best college bat.  But his positional value was far below that of Rutschman.  You draft AR at 1-1 because he's got an excellent hit tool and plays a premium defensive position.

[Sessh]

3 hours ago, makoman said:

This was your analogy, but fine, carry on being the only one who believes the best catching prospect in baseball shouldn't really catch.

Shouldn't catch full-time IF he is an elite offensive asset. If he's not, it's moot. I will go on thinking that even if I am the only one. Doesn't matter much to me.