Should Rutschman stay at catcher?

[jabba72]

8 hours ago, webbrick2010 said:

I hope we didn't use 1-1 on a plus defensive catcher that we plan to move to 1B the least valued position on the field.

Just that anyone is thinking this goes to how much I disliked a catcher at 1-1

CJ Abrams will never be moved to 1B, at a minimum he will be a plus defensive SS or CF

 

 

I had the same thoughts and wanted Abrams too. 

[tntoriole]

Almost all catchers have ended up playing some games at other positions as their careers progressed...Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench, Pudge Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Mike Piazza, Joe Mauer, Buster Posey, etc...have all played some games at 1b, OF, or  DH as that became an option. 

I suspect AR will too. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, tntoriole said:

Almost all catchers have ended up playing some games at other positions as their careers progressed...Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench, Pudge Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Mike Piazza, Joe Mauer, Buster Posey, etc...have all played some games at 1b, OF, or  DH as that became an option. 

I suspect AR will too. 

Doesn't the same go for the other center of the diamond types?  Plenty of SS and CF with long careers get moved as they age.

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, UpstateNYfan said:

There is a lot more going on for newly drafted players than baseball. HS draftees are on their own for the first time (I don't know if teams hire "babysitters" to help them adjust, or let them loose), some have been given a respectable amounts of money to play with, dietary (eat what they want and easiest),  the game has now become a profession, etc, etc. The adjustment for anyone is difficult. But for a 17-19 year old, scary!!! Not as much for the college draftee, but still some of the same issues. The game is now a job and their future..tough for anyone 18-22. Let them get through the first 1.5 years to learn and then assess. 

I hope you just happened to quote my comment to make your point and are not telling me this, because you have to know I'm very, very familiar with how all of this works, right? 

No one should "assess" anyone after their first 40 some PAs in professional baseball, but few players completely bomb the GCL with an awful K-BB ratio and end up a great major leaguers. Remember, that league is full of the same kinds of players as Gunnar. 

Now it's way too early to have concerns, but if he ends up the season with no power, a poor average and poor K-BB ratio I will have concerns. Concerns doesn't mean you discount a guy, concerns mean just that you have to wonder why a guy would struggle badly against similar age/experience players. 

The raw talent tools wise is in there so he has many years before your start to make assessments, but that doesn't mean you don't have concerns if he struggles over an extended period of time in categories that suggest a reason for concern. He's not the only kid in his current situation. 

Again, I don't really care too much about the average or even the power at this stage, but I do want to see him have competitive bats and not be dominated eventually. It's way too early to take anything out of his current stats but if we end up at the 120 PA stage and the K-BB ratio is ugly (it's a respectable 3-7 in his last six games) I will have concerns.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, UpstateNYfan said:

There is a lot more going on for newly drafted players than baseball. HS draftees are on their own for the first time (I don't know if teams hire "babysitters" to help them adjust, or let them loose), some have been given a respectable amounts of money to play with, dietary (eat what they want and easiest),  the game has now become a profession, etc, etc. The adjustment for anyone is difficult. But for a 17-19 year old, scary!!! Not as much for the college draftee, but still some of the same issues. The game is now a job and their future..tough for anyone 18-22. Let them get through the first 1.5 years to learn and then assess. 

Chipper Jones had a .592 OPS as an 18-year-old in rookie ball.

[Aglets]

35 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Chipper Jones had a .592 OPS as an 18-year-old in rookie ball.

Look at who discovered anecdotal evidence all of a sudden! 

My turn!

Darell Hernaiz (5th rounder for us this year)  is 17 and currently has a .785 OPS in the GCL with 10 BB to 12 K.

So it's not all bad news.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Look at who discovered anecdotal evidence all of a sudden! 

My turn!

Darell Hernaiz (5th rounder for us this year)  is 17 and currently hitting .785 in the GCL with 10 BB to 12 K.

So it's not all bad news.

He's hitting .785?  That's really good.  He must get a hit every time he doesn't strike out.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's hitting .785?  That's really good.  He must get a hit every time he doesn't strike out.

.785 his is OPS. Hernaiz OBP is .417 though. He has 10 walks in 38 at bats and that is impressive. 

[Ruzious]

9 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Look at who discovered anecdotal evidence all of a sudden! 

My turn!

Darell Hernaiz (5th rounder for us this year)  is 17 and currently hitting .785 in the GCL with 10 BB to 12 K.

So it's not all bad news.

He's OPSing .785.  He's "hitting" .263.  That's nice but not quite the same as hitting .785.    

You can take another turn.  

Btw, Rut should not be switched from catcher - assuming he has no knee issues.  Being a catcher is a major part of him being the #1 pick.  

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

.785 his is OPS. Hernaiz OBP is .417 though. He has 10 walks in 38 at bats and that is impressive. 

Yea, I know. 

[Aglets]

Sorry I was a little loose with my verbiage there.  Thought it was pretty obvious that I was referring to OPS.  I'll tweak it.  Just doing my part to try and get people to use more useful metrics than BA.  

[Philip]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Almost all catchers have ended up playing some games at other positions as their careers progressed...Yogi Berra, Johnny Bench, Pudge Rodriguez, Carlton Fisk, Gary Carter, Mike Piazza, Joe Mauer, Buster Posey, etc...have all played some games at 1b, OF, or  DH as that became an option. 

I suspect AR will too. 

 I would imagine that he will play every game  of the season except the second game of a doubleheader, but 10-15 of those games will be at designated hitter. But when you have a catcher who could be a generational player, you don’t move him from the most difficult position on the field to the easiest. He’s a catcher,  And a catcher he shall remain.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

And Bobby Witt Jr. isn't exactly lighting the world on fire and he's a year older than Henderson.  

Cal Ripken didn't find his power stroke until his third year of minor league baseball. Orioles have enough problems, I'm not going to get worked up about Henderson struggling in rookie ball. 

[Sessh]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

If the Orioles were going to draft just a hitter, they would have drafted Vaughn. Part of Rutschman's value is that he's a plus defender at a premium position. If you make that decision, it comes about 6-7 years into his major league career.

I can certainly understand this view, but I am still against putting him there full time IF his hit tool is as good as it's projected to be because it's simply too risky to put all your eggs in that basket. If Severino, for example, is still here and has taken the full-time catcher role and run with it at an above average or elite level, I would not trade him to make room for Rutschman. Only way I have him back there full time is if our catching situation is bleak or inadequate. If he played any other position, I would not view it this way. This is most of the reason I wasn't all that thrilled about taking a catcher first overall because it's just too risky if he's going to be our best player or even a generational player.

I am well aware that I am early in bringing this up, but the thing is most of the time, people are too late in bringing it up and prefer to wait for the catcher to suffer injuries first so he's not the same anymore and then make the move. If Rutschman is just an average hitter in the majors, then all of this is moot since if he did end up being a casualty of his job early, it wouldn't threaten to tank the entire team and wouldn't be impossible to replace. If the guy proves to be an irreplaceable offensive asset, you're just rolling the dice by playing him there every game and I'm not much of a gambler. It's not like he's going to forget how to play catcher if he's only doing it part-time. It would be more about protecting your assets proactively instead of waiting for something to happen that forces your hand because it may be too late by the time that happens.

 

40 minutes ago, Philip said:

 I would imagine that he will play every game  of the season except the second game of a doubleheader, but 10-15 of those games will be at designated hitter. But when you have a catcher who could be a generational player, you don’t move him from the most difficult position on the field to the easiest. He’s a catcher,  And a catcher he shall remain.

Just because a player is drafted at a certain position doesn't mean they must play there all the time no matter what. Machado was drafted as a SS, but turns out he's a MUCH better third baseman. He's played more games at 3B than SS in San Diego and he's a gold glover there. He didn't forget how to play SS, he's just much better at third from what we saw when he was here. He is a SS/3B. Rutschman would be a C/1B who could still be traded (if we choose not to extend him in the future) as a C. He's not going to forget how to do it and I'm not suggesting he never catch again, but maybe once or twice a week instead of every day unless our catching situation is a mess. If defense is all Rutschman is going to bring as a major leaguer, then my point is moot.

Craig Biggio was moved from catcher to 2B after only three seasons because he was too valuable a player to the team offensively to put at such a high risk position, but moving to second base is difficult. If Rutschman is as good as advertised offensively and could go somewhere other than first base, great. Moving players off of catcher to another position to protect them early in a career is not unheard of, but certainly not common. Whether or not it's common shouldn't be an indicator of whether or not it's a good idea, though.

I imagine he will catch every day, though. I only hope it doesn't backfire on us and that if he is a significant offensive asset, the team will change it's approach to him.

[Can_of_corn]

You think Severino might become an elite catcher?

I kinda lost track of your post after I got to that part.