Should Rutschman stay at catcher?

[Sessh]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

You think Severino might become an elite catcher?

I kinda lost track of your post after I got to that part.

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Aglets said:

Sorry I was a little loose with my verbiage there.  Thought it was pretty obvious that I was referring to OPS.  I'll tweak it.  Just doing my part to try and get people to use more useful metrics than BA.  

I still think Gunnar Henderson makes the HOF before Hernaiz.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

I didn't mention the above average part, because while I think it is unlikely, it is, to me, at least possible.  I don't think it's possible that he starts putting up elite numbers.

I think the O's would gladly take average (2 wins).

[Aglets]

6 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I still think Gunnar Henderson makes the HOF before Hernaiz.  

Perfectly plausible.  My take on Gunnar is basically the same as Tony's.  No reason to get worried yet, but I hope to see some improvement by the end of the season.

Just having some fun tweaking Drungo a bit........I don't think we have anywhere near enough data yet to say anything definitive about Hernaiz vs Henderson.

[Sessh]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't mention the above average part, because while I think it is unlikely, it is, to me, at least possible.  I don't think it's possible that he starts putting up elite numbers.

I think the O's would gladly take average (2 wins).

Point taken. I certainly didn't have his offensive ability in mind when I said that, but defensively, he could be in the neighborhood. Even in the best case scenario, I don't see Sevy being a 900+ OPS guy ever. I'd be thrilled if he could just sustain what he's doing this year.

Obviously, a lot can happen over the next year or two. I think if Severino doesn't work out, I think it's even less likely Sisco does which leaves only Rutschman.

[Ruzious]

4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Perfectly plausible.  My take on Gunnar is basically the same as Tony's.  No reason to get worried yet, but I hope to see some improvement by the end of the season.

Just having some fun tweaking Drungo a bit........I don't think we have anywhere near enough data yet to say anything definitive about Hernaiz vs Henderson.

Sounds very reasonable.  It'll be interesting to track them and see which pulls ahead next year.  Best case - it turns into something similar to the Braves sitiation when they had shortstops Dansby Swanson and Ozzie Albies shooting up their system.  They waited till they had to make a decision and moved Albies to 2nd.  (Poor Johan Camargo got lost in the shuffle and moved to 3B.)  The rest is history, and hopefully it's repeated here.  

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

 I would imagine that he will play every game  of the season except the second game of a doubleheader, but 10-15 of those games will be at designated hitter. But when you have a catcher who could be a generational player, you don’t move him from the most difficult position on the field to the easiest. He’s a catcher,  And a catcher he shall remain.

As were all of the ones I mentioned.  The second Johnny Bench would work just fine for me. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Sessh said:

Certainly, if he can sustain what he's doing now and maybe improve his ability to catch popups, he's certainly an above average option back there. I'm not talking HOF here. I did say above average OR elite level. It was my intent to say if he's somewhere in between the two, but I didn't word it quite right. Probably should have said "to" instead of "or", but above average is sufficient.

I see Severino as more of a backup catcher if he can continue to hit a bit. He's actually not an elite defender. Despite throwing as his best attribute, he's not a great framer and his blocking game is adequate at best. I like his game calling a bit and he seems to handle the pitchers pretty well, but I'm not sure he's a long term starter anywhere and he certainly does not appear to be a guy who will be an elite guy. 

I like Severino, but he's not a guy you move Rutschman for. I hear and understand your point about why you would move him off catcher, but I disagree and think you don't draft him 1-1 if you plan to move him anytime soon from an elite position.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Ruzious said:

He's OPSing .785.  He's "hitting" .263.  That's nice but not quite the same as hitting .785.    

You can take another turn.  

Btw, Rut should not be switched from catcher - assuming he has no knee issues.  Being a catcher is a major part of him being the #1 pick.  

 

Maybe we need to change the definition of “hitting,” because 95% of the posters here don’t focus primarily on BA.

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Chipper Jones had a .592 OPS as an 18-year-old in rookie ball.

He also walked 14 times and struck out just 23 times in 164 PAs. He had only three extra base hits all season which is why I said I'm not concerned over a lack of power and average at this stage. I also said that few (not none) players are dominated in K-BB ratio in GCL and turn into good major league players. 

Regardless, we are a long way from assessing Gunnar as he's still getting his feet wet. He could go on a tear next week and look like the next coming. As I said and stand by my comments, I will only have concerns is if he ends up around 120-140 PAs with an awful K-BB ratio. Concerns are not final assessments.

 

[Ruzious]

Just now, Frobby said:

Maybe we need to change the definition of “hitting,” because 95% of the posters here don’t focus primarily on BA.

Nah, as long as everyone is consistent with what's been used for the last 100 years.  

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

And Bobby Witt Jr. isn't exactly lighting the world on fire and he's a year older than Henderson.  

After a slow start, Witt has slashed .327/.375/.442/.817 over his last 11 games. 

[Sessh]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Biggio wasn't moved because he was so valuable offensively.  It had a lot to do with his defense, IIRC.  Also, a catcher can sustain a serious injury playing the position part time.  I do agree that if he's an elite offensive player that I would consider avoiding the daily grind and the wear and tear of the position.

AFAIK, Biggio was moved off of catcher to preserve his legs which was his biggest asset; speed. He was an all-star catcher before the change, but did not want it to erode his athletic abilities.

[jabba72]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Biggio wasn't moved because he was so valuable offensively.  It had a lot to do with his defense, IIRC.  Also, a catcher can sustain a serious injury playing the position part time.  I do agree that if he's an elite offensive player that I would consider avoiding the daily grind and the wear and tear of the position.

Depends. If Rutschman is a .330 type hitter and has 100 Walk potential, then i would consider moving him off catcher, but as was the case with Wieters, you wont know what you have until he's in the majors already. 

[Luke-OH]

3 hours ago, Sessh said:

AFAIK, Biggio was moved off of catcher to preserve his legs which was his biggest asset; speed. He was an all-star catcher before the change, but did not want it to erode his athletic abilities.

Biggio allowed 434 SBs in 392 games started at catcher. Just a 23% CS rate. He definitely wasn't a good catch and throw guy.