Could we be looking at another sell off?

[sportsfan8703]

The following players have some varied trade value,

Trey Mancini

Dylan Bundy

Mychal Givens

Jonathan Villar

Hanser Alberto

Pedro Severino

Renato Nunez

We’re looking at another 100 loss season. With the exception of guys like Hays, Harvey, Sisco, and Santander, the likely core of our next “good” teams are in AAA and below. 

With teams smartening up and not trading a lot of prospects at the deadline to chase the WC spots, I think more teams would view themselves as “contenders” now, versus in July. 

Who on the above list would even be here in 2022 and beyond?  

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The following players have some varied trade value,

Trey Mancini

Dylan Bundy

Mychal Givens

Jonathan Villar

Hanser Alberto

Pedro Severino

Renato Nunez

We’re looking at another 100 loss season. With the exception of guys like Hays, Harvey, Sisco, and Santander, the likely core of our next “good” teams are in AAA and below. 

With teams smartening up and not trading a lot of prospects at the deadline to chase the WC spots, I think more teams would view themselves as “contenders” now, versus in July. 

Who on the above list would even be here in 2022 and beyond?  

I don't know why they would be looking to trade Albert at this point. I think his value will increase substantially if He reasonably reproduces his production from last year.

Also Think the 27 year old guys will be in their prime when the Orioles are good again. 

So I think those are the trades where you need to get the right return.

[sportsfan8703]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I don't know why they would be looking to trade Albert at this point. I think his value will increase substantially if He reasonably reproduces his production from last year.

Also Think the 27 year old guys will be in their prime when the Orioles are good again. 

So I think those are the trades where you need to get the right return.

I think teams know who these guys are, and know what their value is. There’s risk in holding onto guys too long too?  What if Givens and Bundy have so-so years and now we’re looking at non tendering them next year?

i guess the whole point of this thread is what do these players contribute to us in the future?  What’s the difference between 100 and 108 losses?  One extra loss every 2 weeks?  We last made the playoffs in 2016, if you fret over not losing some hand picked number of games that turns into 14 years of losing real fast  

 

[wildcard]

Depends on what is offered.   Any of those players can be had if the return makes the organization deeper in talent in Elias' judgement.

Villar is the  most likely to go because he will be a FA come October.   

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think teams know who these guys are, and know what their value is. There’s risk in holding onto guys too long too?  What if Givens and Bundy have so-so years and now we’re looking at non tendering them next year?

i guess the whole point of this thread is what do these players contribute to us in the future?  What’s the difference between 100 and 108 losses?  One extra loss every 2 weeks?  We last made the playoffs in 2016, if you fret over not losing some hand picked number of games that turns into 14 years of losing real fast  

 

But I didn't mention Bundy and Givens. Although I think you would be selling low on Givens. If he keeps the ball  in the first half I think his value goes way up. You accomplish that by getting him out of the closers roles and have him work on keeping the ball down.

im talking in my post about the 27 year old Alberto and Mancin. Although I think Mancini is at peak value now 

 

[wildbillhiccup]

3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I don't know why they would be looking to trade Albert at this point. I think his value will increase substantially if He reasonably reproduces his production from last year.

Also Think the 27 year old guys will be in their prime when the Orioles are good again. 

So I think those are the trades where you need to get the right return.

Isn't 27ish the prime for a baseball player? I don't see any reason why we should keep any of those if players if someone makes us a solid offer. I'm not saying we should give them away, but they should certainly be "available". 

[HowAboutThat]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

With the exception of guys like Hays, Harvey, Sisco, and Santander, the likely core of our next “good” teams are in AAA and below. 

Sisco will be not any part of any good team, unless he improves dramatically in every area.

Regarding the others, other teams are smart. They know the limitations of these guys.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Philip

[sportsfan8703]

19 minutes ago, Philip said:

Sisco will be not any part of any good team, unless he improves dramatically in every area.

Regarding the others, other teams are smart. They know the limitations of these guys.

Exactly but we have the flexibility to trot out guys that haven’t gotten an opportunity and give them ABs to see what they can do. Alberto and Severino showed they can hit LHP. In Alberto’s case, he demolished LHP.

Severino and Alberto would be role players on a good team. Severino might be a good fit on a team like the Astros. Alberto could be a good fit on an NL team because he offers some positional flexibility, could pinch hit, and he can hit LHP. 

I’m in favor of a wash, rinse, repeat, cycle of picking guys up off the waiver wire then trading them if they develop have some value. They could develop into role players for good teams now, but their limited skill set will diminish by the time we’re good. 

Players with a decent ceiling, in A ball, and no immediate 40 man roster concerns, would be ideal in a return. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by sportsfan8703

[Moose Milligan]

I'm not sure what people expect to get in return for these players.  I think these threads start off with the best type of intentions but I don't believe that anyone should be under the impression that we're going to get a core piece of the franchise moving forward for a guy like Mancini.  

Maybe, just maybe, you get a guy who's not highly regarded by another team and he blossoms here.  But for the guys we've got on the team right now that are "trade bait," no one's giving up significant prospects.  Add to that the shift in what MLB teams are now valuing which is young, cost controlled talent...and there aren't going to be any great returns for what we've got.

 

 

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not sure what people expect to get in return for these players.  I think these threads start off with the best type of intentions but I don't believe that anyone should be under the impression that we're going to get a core piece of the franchise moving forward for a guy like Mancini.  

Maybe, just maybe, you get a guy who's not highly regarded by another team and he blossoms here.  But for the guys we've got on the team right now that are "trade bait," no one's giving up significant prospects.  Add to that the shift in what MLB teams are now valuing which is young, cost controlled talent...and there aren't going to be any great returns for what we've got.

 

 

No, we won't get a traditional ranked prospect for any of these folks.  We should still trade anyone that is starting to cost money and take a shot. 

[atomic]

I think at a certain point you need to stop getting worse.  The team should be adding better players.  How long are you going to say these players won't be around when we are good again. With a strategy like that you will never be good.

Lot of teams "rebuilding" these days.  Doesn't take much to be good in this division with the Red Sox looking to shed salary.  The Blue Jays tanking.   

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm not sure what people expect to get in return for these players.  I think these threads start off with the best type of intentions but I don't believe that anyone should be under the impression that we're going to get a core piece of the franchise moving forward for a guy like Mancini.  

Maybe, just maybe, you get a guy who's not highly regarded by another team and he blossoms here.  But for the guys we've got on the team right now that are "trade bait," no one's giving up significant prospects.  Add to that the shift in what MLB teams are now valuing which is young, cost controlled talent...and there aren't going to be any great returns for what we've got.

 I haven’t really studied the trends in the trade market to see if there’s really been any big sea change in what a veteran will bring in terms of prospects, but I’m not sure there’s really been a dramatic shift.   It’s always going to be the case that contending teams will be willing to sacrifice some future value to try to win now.    If there’s been a change, it’s probably that right now there are fewer “borderline” teams that might contend but aren’t sure to.    Those teams sometimes make bad choices.   

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 I haven’t really studied the trends in the trade market to see if there’s really been any big sea change in what a veteran will bring in terms of prospects, but I’m not sure there’s really been a dramatic shift.   It’s always going to be the case that contending teams will be willing to sacrifice some future value to try to win now.    If there’s been a change, it’s probably that right now there are fewer “borderline” teams that might contend but aren’t sure to.    Those teams sometimes make bad choices.   

If you can get veteran players for less these days than wouldn't it make more sense to trade fringe prospects for veterans?  Instead of trading your good veteran players for fringe prospects? 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

I think at a certain point you need to stop getting worse.  The team should be adding better players.  How long are you going to say these players won't be around when we are good again. With a strategy like that you will never be good.

Lot of teams "rebuilding" these days.  Doesn't take much to be good in this division with the Red Sox looking to shed salary.  The Blue Jays tanking.   

The Orioles already have stopped getting worse, having won 7 more games in 2019 than in 2018.     I expect them to win more games in 2020 than they won last year.   But I don’t expect them to do it by spending a lot of money to acquire veteran players.    I expect them to do it because some of their younger players will gradually be maturing and the front office and coaching staff will benefit from having spent 2019 testing players’ capabilities.     Do I expect a big leap in the team’s record?    No, just modest improvement.    

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Orioles already have stopped getting worse, having won 7 more games in 2019 than in 2018.     I expect them to win more games in 2020 than they won last year.   But I don’t expect them to do it by spending a lot of money to acquire veteran players.    I expect them to do it because some of their younger players will gradually be maturing and the front office and coaching staff will benefit from having spent 2019 testing players’ capabilities.     Do I expect a big leap in the team’s record?    No, just modest improvement.    

If you trade all the players in the original post and don't add new players they will be worse. Well other than Severino and Nunez.  Who I think can easily be replaced.