Palmer: Fed up with Cabrera

[Dr. FLK]

At one point Palmer said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "He can't locate his fastball, he can't get his curve over, he doesn't field his position well, and he doesn't improve." Inning after inning Palmer just crushed him...and I don't see any way to disagree with anything he said.

[Dr. FLK]

I agree that Palmer was quite critical of Cabrera today, but I don't think he is upset with him anymore. I think he just doesn't think Cabrera is the same pitcher regarding stuff so he doesn't think his other deficiencies can be overcome any longer. Basically, I think Palmer believes Cabrera is no longer good or has enough upside to be a starting pitcher on the team. I tend to think the same thing.

The scary thing is that he holds runners so poorly and field his position so badly, I don't think there is any way you can put him in the bullpen in an important role. I'd bunt and steal on him all day in a one run game in the 8th/9th inning.

If he can't get it together, he may be gone from the staff totally.

I got the impression that Palmer was completely fed up with him. He hates lazy players.

He hates how poorly Dcab fields. For instance, in Dcab's last start, a ball got hit right back to him and bounced off of his leg. It was ruled an error. And Palmer said "I don't know how you can rule that an error. I mean, you can never assume that Cabrera will actually field a ball."

He hates how poorly he holds runners on as well. I definitely agree with you about the bunting on him. I don't know that he'd ever get anyone out that way.

While Cabrera might not have the best stuff in the world, Palmer (IMO) seems to think that he's pretty lazy in many other areas. To me, it seems like more than just not having upside from Palmer...

[Dr. FLK]

I agree he is frustrated by all of these things (as am I), but I don't think he believes any of these things are due to laziness. Cabrera can't field his position because he flinches whenever a batter swings. He isn't doing that on purpose or because he is lazy. It is rather pitiful, but he can't help it.

I think Palmer realizes that these things are what they are at this point so you have to decide if Cabrera's good points and/or potential upside outweighs these deficiencies. I don't think he thinks they do anymore. I think that was what was behind his speeches. He made quite a point to emphasize the loss of quality in his stuff today. That was the root point IMO. Basically, he was saying "Since DCab does X, Y, and Z poorly AND his stuff is no longer as good as it used to be, he isn't worthy of being a starter anymore".

That was what I got from him anyway. Frustration and resignation rather than anger.

It's entirely possible. But, not covering first in time like he did today or not holding guys on base seems like laziness. We'll just have to call up Palmer and see who's interpretation is right.

[paulcoates]

I have pretty much advocating trading Daniuel for the last several years. Yeah you see extremely short flashes of turning the corner, only to put it back in reverse, run a red light and get t-boned by a bus.

He just doesn't get it. Like VaTech said, his mechanics are just flat out awful. His arm slot is so out of whack, not to mention that you just see that he is not balanced out there on the mound. By that, I mean, he does not have 100% control of all of his body when he is pitching. Without that, you may get some run on the ball or some extra movement, but in the end, it only causes one thing. Inconsistency, which leads to wildness.

At this point, I don't really want to see him pitch for the O's anymore. I know he has no trade value whatsoever, so,

Does he have any options left? Can we just send him down? If he does great, trade him. If not, my only suggestion besides DFA'ing him, would be the long man out of the pen. He just isn't reliable enough to count on to throw strikes.

[paulcoates]

I'm not very good with the Pitch FX stuff yet, so I'll just post these two links so you all can decide:

His best game this year by Game Score was May 8.

Here's his chart for today.

VaTech, what do these tell you?

I'll tell you what it tells me. He isn't throwing his fastball as much. The graph tells it all. 2 pitches then vs 4 now. He needs t learn to throw 1 pitch for strikes before he tries 4

[Sports Guy]

His peripherals cry out that he is not even close to a 4/5 starter right now IMO.

[NewOFan]

Just out of curiosity, the beginning of the year, April, May, he was really good. He just lost it after that? I thought the lower velocity=better control made perfect sense... What happened!?

[coachkuhn]

Cabrera has zero confidence. Any player who takes the field with zero confidence has no business being on the field period. He is not a student of the game. He appears to be ADD at times. He flat out has no killer instinct. He needs to be moved to the pen or sent down to work on confidence and the strike zone.

[Dr. FLK]

Cabrera has zero confidence. Any player who takes the field with zero confidence has no business being on the field period. He is not a student of the game. He appears to be ADD at times. He flat out has no killer instinct. He needs to be moved to the pen or sent down to work on confidence and the strike zone.

I wouldn't have any confidence either if I was incapable of doing any aspect of my job...

[Dr. FLK]

Just out of curiosity, the beginning of the year, April, May, he was really good. He just lost it after that? I thought the lower velocity=better control made perfect sense... What happened!?

The lowering his velocity part worked. But, the better control didn't really work all that well. He now has no control and less velocity.

[Mad Mark]

The simple fact is this: until Daniel Cabrera is the sixth-best major league starter you have, you must keep him in the rotation....but when his fastball is indistinguishable from Guthrie's changeup on the radar gun, I have to believe he's hiding an injury.

Also, kudos to VaTech for the analysis of Cabrera's arm slot.

[OregonBird]

Just out of curiosity, the beginning of the year, April, May, he was really good. He just lost it after that? I thought the lower velocity=better control made perfect sense... What happened!?

Coming out of spring training, pitchers are generally ahead of the hitters. I think part of the reason was due to the fact that hitters come around later.

The other reason could be just a gradual deterioration of his mechanics. All the work in spring training probably helped his confidence and his mechanics and that carried over into the early season. Then, when he hit some rough patches, his mechanics slipped, he lost his confidence. Once that happened couldn't restore himself to the first few months of the season.

[SteveA]

Thanks for transcribing that, Moose.

Pretty harsh, but it's hard to argue with any of that. This is what makes Palmer a good broadcaster-- he tells it like it is, and isn't afraid to be critical of the Orioles when warranted.

He's been on Cabrera a lot this year. I remember the Hangout Night vs Detroit where Cabrera gave up 6 in the 1st. I departed the left field seats on a search for good beer that took me almost halfway around the upper deck, and the TV broadcast was being played over the concourse speakers, and I remember Palmer making similar comments about Cabrera. Questioning his pitch selection, too.

[TinCup]

His peripherals cry out that he is not even close to a 4/5 starter right now IMO.

Indeed.

Was waiting for this tried and true DCab post...took all the way to the 5th page of posts...the ol' "he is what he is and that is a #4/5 starter" post....

Could it be that Danny is trying to pull a "Manny"? Mailing the games in so as to be traded to another team? :scratchchinhmm: :angryfire:

[oldbird]

I heard Palmer in his shpiel going off about the progression of DCAb but I didn't get that he wasn't "FED UP " with him as to be 100 % to blame and that he was RUSHED up to the big leauges without the the minor leauge experiece. Another words what we have been experiencing is a minor leauge pitcher without the development to correspond within his own progressive leavel. Also we all have to remember Palmer comes from a different era and not to take away from him, he has been put up in the kings chair to where not many come close. Dont get me wrong he was and is one of the greatest pitchers off all time but he does tend to verbally lash out his fustration of dissapointment. I am also sure that maybe him and others in the Orioles organization feel that if we do cut him loose it will probably come back and bite us in the @@@.:wedge: