HOF announcement in 5 minutes

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

59 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

And don't forget what dWAR is: defensive runs above/below average, plus positional adjustment.  Jeter was a shortstop, so he got a positional adjustment of about +8 runs per season.  So he's about 83 runs worse than average over his career after you account for being a shortstop and getting a fudge factor of +8 runs per season.

+20 is a pretty epic defensive season.  Jeter had three different years where bb-ref lists him as -20 to -30 runs above average.  Minus 20.  Defensively he was the bizarro Ozzie Smith.

But Jeter threw out that runner at home in the playoffs against the A’s, so that cancels everything else out about his suspect defense. 

[SteveA]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

But Jeter threw out that runner at home in the playoffs against the A’s, so that cancels everything else out about his suspect defense. 

He dove headfirst into the stands too.

[HowAboutThat]

Regarding Jeter, I was being sarcastic. Yes he could hit. But shortstop is a defense first position. You want a guy who can defend.

One of the best lines I ever read over at Camden Chat, which is not full of good writers, was, I think, in a recap of an Oriole-Yankee game where I read the following description of an Oriole at-bat: “He hit a grounder to short, which is the same as saying ‘a single up the middle’...”

Oh, did that make me laugh, and it makes me laugh still.

Yes, he hit well enough to be in the Hall, but let’s not have any claptrap about him being the best of all time, or even good. He wasn’t, and only fools and Yankee fans think otherwise.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Philip

[LookinUp]

35 minutes ago, SteveA said:

He dove headfirst into the stands too.

And he had the jump throw for balls in the 6 hole. That was fancy.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, LookinUp said:

And he had the jump throw for balls in the 6 hole. That was fancy.

Well the ones Jeter could actually get to. 

[Frobby]

45 minutes ago, Philip said:

Regarding Jeter, I was being sarcastic. Yes he could hit. But shortstop is a defense first position. You want a guy who can defend.

One of the best lines I ever read over at Camden Chat, which is not full of good writers, was, I think, in a recap of an Oriole-Yankee game where I read the following description of an Oriole at-bat: “He hit a grounder to short, which is the same as saying ‘a single up the middle’...”

Oh, did that make me laugh, and it makes me laugh still.

Yes, he hit well enough to be in the Hall, but let’s not have any claptrap about him being the best of all time, or even good. He wasn’t, and only fools and Yankee fans think otherwise.

It’s ridiculous to say he wasn’t good.    He was an excellent player and his offense more than made up for his defense.    To be clear, his big problem on defense was limited range.    He was a relatively mistake free player.    It’s not like you watched Jeter and slapped your head over his defensive gaffes.    There were just a lot of balls that he couldn’t quite reach.    

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

13 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s ridiculous to say he wasn’t good.    He was an excellent player and his offense more than made up for his defense.    To be clear, his big problem on defense was limited range.    He was a relatively mistake free player.    It’s not like you watched Jeter and slapped your head over his defensive gaffes.    There were just a lot of balls that he couldn’t quite reach.    

Can’t make an error if you don’t get to the ball.

[GuidoSarducci]

5 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Honus was clearly the best shortstop of all time when compared to his peers, at least if you talk about a whole career in way that you exclude ARod and his half a career at third base.  And PEDs if care about such things.

But Honus played from 1897-1917.  The differences between 1897 or 1910 or 1920 baseball and today's are stark.  I could piece together a case that the best team in MLB in 1897 would struggle in the Eastern League today.  A fair bit of Honus' distance between him and average and him and replacement is the fact that an average or replacement level player of his day wouldn't even remotely be a major leaguer in 2019.  You have to at least consider that when calling someone from 120 years ago the greatest of all time.

But baseball evolved, in large part because of players like Wagner elevated the game to such a degree, that they set a new standard by which others were judged.  

Yes, it you simply teleported Richie Martin back to 1905, he would probably be an All-Star.

Didn't Ted Williams admit he wouldn't have hit .400 if he had to play in the league after 1960?

If you wanted to make the case of Ruth as the GOAT - his single season and career records have long since been eclipsed by more recent players.  And if he were to play today, he would in all probability be a Manny Ramirez power-only DH type, with 40ishHRS and .250 average, at best.. But at the time he was hitting more home runs, than many entire teams.  So he in essence paved the way for later guys like Mantle, Maris, Aaron, McGwire, Bonds and Sosa. 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by GuidoSarducci

[MongoBoy]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

He dove headfirst into the stands too.

He only dove into the stands because he tripped when he tried to stop himself.

[tntoriole]

4 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Some of them would surely die of the consumption.  But the rest would hit .455.

If they survived the beanings when they got to .350.  Without helmets. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

If they survived the beanings when they got to .350.  Without helmets. 

The balls were softer and they didn't throw as hard, no need for helmets!

[tntoriole]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The balls were softer and they didn't throw as hard, no need for helmets!

Of course.  They were all a bunch of girls. 

[tntoriole]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The balls were softer and they didn't throw as hard, no need for helmets!

Tell it to Ray Chapman or Don Zimmer.  

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Tell it to Ray Chapman or Don Zimmer.  

[tntoriole]

30 minutes ago, GuidoSarducci said:

But baseball evolved, in large part because of players like Wagner elevated the game to such a degree, that they set a new standard by which others were judged.  

Yes, it you simply teleported Richie Martin back to 1905, he would probably be an All-Star.

Didn't Ted Williams admit he wouldn't have hit .400 if he had to play in the league after 1960?

If you wanted to make the case of Ruth as the GOAT - his single season and career records have long since been eclipsed by more recent players.  And if he were to play today, he would in all probability be a Manny Ramirez power-only DH type, with 40ishHRS and .250 average, at best.. But at the time he was hitting more home runs, than many entire teams.  So he in essence paved the way for later guys like Mantle, Maris, Aaron, McGwire, Bonds and Sosa. 

 

Ty Cobb...In 1960, asked by a reporter towards the end of his life what he thought he would hit playing today and Cobb said  “Probably  around .290”   The reporter said “why so low?” and Cobb said “because I am 74 damn years old”.