Orioles' last 5 tool player?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Another viewpoint. I think 5 tools was mainly used as prospect evaluation. If you look at current players Trout get rated as an 8 tool guy.

http://fivetoolschool.com/what-are-the-five-tools-in-baseball/

 

That's a tough read.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's a tough read.

Like everything in life, its an opinion, and I thought they did a decent job on it.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Like everything in life, its an opinion, and I thought they did a decent job on it.

Read like a freshman English report to me.

[DrungoHazewood]

Melvin Mora stole as many as 16 bases in a season.  He had the arm and the overall ability to play third or short.  He once hit .340.  He had 27, 27, and 23 homers in individual seasons.  Before signing with the Mets he was a fairly high-level soccer player in Venezuela.  And he sired quintpulets.

He's gotta be at least a seven tool player.

[Redskins Rick]

29 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Melvin Mora stole as many as 16 bases in a season.  He had the arm and the overall ability to play third or short.  He once hit .340.  He had 27, 27, and 23 homers in individual seasons.  Before signing with the Mets he was a fairly high-level soccer player in Venezuela.  And he sired quintpulets.

He's gotta be at least a seven tool player.

works for me.

[makoman]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Markakis (I think). Stole 18 bases once and I believe his speed was above average when he came up. Excellent arm of course and definitely had the hit tool. Gold glove caliber defense. Power was good enough especially when he came up, despite the HR going away if he plays another year he could be top 50 in career doubles. And he could balance a vacuum on his chin.

[Aglets]

Surprised no one has mentioned Jones yet.

AJ had a period where he hit 25, 32, 33, 29, 27, 29 homers.   Hit in the .280s for awhile.  I guess he wasn't really known for success on the base paths stealing, but I still think it's worthy of being in the conversation.  He peaked at 16 steals.  His defense I suppose was somewhat argued about, but clearly he went through a period where he was a great CF.  We could argue about how short it was.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, makoman said:

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Markakis (I think). Stole 18 bases once and I believe his speed was above average when he came up. Excellent arm of course and definitely had the hit tool. Gold glove caliber defense. Power was good enough especially when he came up, despite the HR going away if he plays another year he could be top 50 in career doubles. And he could balance a vacuum on his chin.

I think nobody mentioned Markakis because he was a little fast when he came up, but by 2012 he was not fast.  And in the modern game a peak of 23 homers 13 years ago is not power.  Last year he had nine homers, and the average MLBer had over 20 homers per 600 PAs.

And I think the only time I was ever convinced he was Gold Glove caliber was when I was in the middle of one of those mind-numbing arguments with @Old#5Fan.

I say all of this as a Nick Markakis fan.  Just not on the level of @Frobby

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think nobody mentioned Markakis because he was a little fast when he came up, but by 2012 he was not fast.  And in the modern game a peak of 23 homers 13 years ago is not power.  Last year he had nine homers, and the average MLBer had over 20 homers per 600 PAs.

And I think the only time I was ever convinced he was Gold Glove caliber was when I was in the middle of one of those mind-numbing arguments with @Old#5Fan.

I say all of this as a Nick Markakis fan.  Just not on the level of @Frobby

Hanser Alberto had 12 HR despite being among the last in the league in hard hit percentage and average exit velocity.

[DrungoHazewood]

53 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Surprised no one has mentioned Jones yet.

AJ had a period where he hit 25, 32, 33, 29, 27, 29 homers.   Hit in the .280s for awhile.  I guess he wasn't really known for success on the base paths stealing, but I still think it's worthy of being in the conversation.  He peaked at 16 steals.  His defense I suppose was somewhat argued about, but clearly he went through a period where he was a great CF.  We could argue about how short it was.

Isn't a five tool player someone with clearly above-average ability in each of the five tools?  Nothing at all against Jones or Markakis, they were both very good for a long time.  But it's hard to say a guy is a five-tool player if, in Adam's case, he never had 20 steals and never hit .300.  He was never in the top 10 in the league in steals or BA, and his top HR season he was 6th.

Maybe this debate hinges on tools vs execution.  Someone mentioned Corey Patterson as a five-tool player.  Maybe he was, but he wasn't a five... uhh... results player, not when he hit .252, only once had 20 homers, and had a career high of eight OF assists.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hanser Alberto had 12 HR despite being among the last in the league in hard hit percentage and average exit velocity.

I'm assuming that he had a very high standard deviation of exit velocity?  That's kind of a throwback to the times when bat speed wasn't the be-all, end-all, and players would change how they swung based on count or other situational considerations.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm assuming that he had a very high standard deviation of exit velocity?  That's kind of a throwback to the times when bat speed wasn't the be-all, end-all, and players would change how they swung based on count or other situational considerations.

You should look at the video I posted in his thread this morning.

[LA2]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hanser Alberto had 12 HR despite being among the last in the league in hard hit percentage and average exit velocity.

And Tony traded him away!

[LA2]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You should look at the video I posted in his thread this morning.

Can't find it (altho I admit I didn't try hard enough)--Can you link it? Thanks.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Can't find it (altho I admit I didn't try hard enough)--Can you link it? Thanks.

It was six posts down on Orioles talk.

But sure, I got you.