Your Opinion- Hypothetical Player Stat Comparison

[Old#5fan]

Funny you should bring that up.

Both are hitting extremely well against the other's team this year. Nick has a .970 OPS and Pena a 1.115 OPS.

Nick has 6 RBI against the Rays and Pena has 25 against the Orioles.

I'm sure these stats will somehow be turned against Markakis.

No wonder I am so impressed with Pena and unimpressed with Markakis. That differential is HUGE! If Markakis is so much better than Pena as some suggest that is pitiful in comparison. This just supports my favoring Pena even more. That is an incredible difference in performance. Pena has nearly 5 times as many runs drive in while most likely playing in the same number of games against the Orioles as has Markakis against the Rays.

[Sports Guy]

No wonder I am so impressed with Pena and unimpressed with Markakis. That differential is HUGE! If Markakis is so much better than Pena as some suggest that is pitiful in comparison. This just supports my favoring Pena even more. That is an incredible difference in performance.

Your ignorance continues to amaze me.

Do you think the Orioles pitching is as good as Tampas?

[Bobby Young RW]

Funny you should bring that up.

Both are hitting extremely well against the other's team this year. Nick has a .970 OPS and Pena a 1.115 OPS.

Nick has 6 RBI against the Rays and Pena has 25 against the Orioles.

I'm sure these stats will somehow be turned against Markakis.

Just goes to prove how good Nick is. 25 RBI's for Pena vs. the Birds, that's almost 25% of Pena's RBI's and puts him behind Nick when you factor out the head-to-head competition. Case remains closed!

[Old#5fan]

Your ignorance continues to amaze me.

Do you think the Orioles pitching is as good as Tampas?[/QUOTE]

No, but 6 rbi is pitiful. 25 is awesome. Especially when the former is a 300 hitter and the later 247. Talk about doing more with less. WOW! This again is very illustrative of the vast difference in type of hitter theses two are. I would take Pena any day of the week and again on Sunday!

[Bobby Young RW]

No wonder I am so impressed with Pena and unimpressed with Markakis. That differential is HUGE! If Markakis is so much better than Pena as some suggest that is pitiful in comparison. This just supports my favoring Pena even more. That is an incredible difference in performance. Pena has nearly 5 times as many runs drive in while most likely playing in the same number of games against the Orioles as has Markakis against the Rays.

Your not just wrong your XXXXXXX!

[Moose Milligan]

No, but 6 rbi is pitiful. 25 is awesome. Especially when the former is a 300 hitter and the later 247. Talk about doing more with less. WOW!

Huh? More like..."talk about padding stats against AA level pitching"

[TakebackOPACY]

No wonder I am so impressed with Pena and unimpressed with Markakis. That differential is HUGE! If Markakis is so much better than Pena as some suggest that is pitiful in comparison. This just supports my favoring Pena even more. That is an incredible difference in performance. Pena has nearly 5 times as many runs drive in while most likely playing in the same number of games against the Orioles as has Markakis against the Rays.

If it makes you feel better about the O's, that means Markakis has more RBI (81) against teams not named 'Rays' than Pena has (76) against teams not named 'Orioles'.

[TakebackOPACY]

Your ignorance continues to amaze me.

Do you think the Orioles pitching is as good as Tampas?[/QUOTE]

No, but 6 rbi is pitiful. 25 is awesome. Especially when the former is a 300 hitter and the later 247. Talk about doing more with less. WOW! This again is very illustrative of the vast difference in type of hitter theses two are. I would take Pena any day of the week and again on Sunday!

I've actually enjoyed trying to have a debate with you (OldFan) without getting ticked off. But I can't do it. I thought you just said you understood my point that you can't just look at one stat. And now you're saying, "look at those RBI's against one team. That tells me all I need to know."

I'm not going to go on and on. I'll just provide this little teaser: Pena has 82 plate appearances in 18 games against the O's because his team batted around so many times. (Which, by it's very nature means he probably had a lot of RBI opportunities). Markakis has 60 plate appearances against the Rays in 16 games. Two of the three games Markakis didn't play this year were against the Rays.

[Lt Melmo]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHF:SDGFBASKJGBS:KGBAS:GJKB

So the last time OldFan complained about THIS EXACT THING, the thread was closed before I had a chance to respond. So I'll just do that now.

The stats I'm about to use are barely stats, they only take into consideration RBI and plate appearances with runners on. They can be found here.

Carlos Pena has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

Nick Markakis has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

In those 202 plate appearances, Carlos Pena has batted in 14 of the runners.

Nick Markakis has batted in 15.

Carlos Pena has had 158 plate appearances with runners on second.

Nick Markakis has had 144.

Carlos Pena has batted in 27 of those runners, which is 17.1%.

Nick Markakis has batted in 29 of his runners, which is 20.1%.

Carlos Pena has had 88 plate appearances with runners on third.

Nick Markakis has had 65.

Carlos Pena has driven in 30 of his 88, for a 34.1% clip.

Nick Markakis has driven in 23 of his 65, for a 35.4% clip.

When Carlos Pena steps up to the plate, 15.8% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

When Nick Markakis steps up to the plate, 16.3% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

[Moose Milligan]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHF:SDGFBASKJGBS:KGBAS:GJKB

So the last time OldFan complained about THIS EXACT THING, the thread was closed before I had a chance to respond. So I'll just do that now.

The stats I'm about to use are barely stats, they only take into consideration RBI and plate appearances with runners on. They can be found here.

Carlos Pena has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

Nick Markakis has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

In those 202 plate appearances, Carlos Pena has batted in 14 of the runners.

Nick Markakis has batted in 15.

Carlos Pena has had 158 plate appearances with runners on second.

Nick Markakis has had 144.

Carlos Pena has batted in 27 of those runners, which is 17.1%.

Nick Markakis has batted in 29 of his runners, which is 20.1%.

Carlos Pena has had 88 plate appearances with runners on third.

Nick Markakis has had 65.

Carlos Pena has driven in 30 of his 88, for a 34.1% clip.

Nick Markakis has driven in 23 of his 65, for a 35.4% clip.

When Carlos Pena steps up to the plate, 15.8% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

When Nick Markakis steps up to the plate, 16.3% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

Wow, thats pretty good stuff.

[Sports Guy]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHF:SDGFBASKJGBS:KGBAS:GJKB

So the last time OldFan complained about THIS EXACT THING, the thread was closed before I had a chance to respond. So I'll just do that now.

The stats I'm about to use are barely stats, they only take into consideration RBI and plate appearances with runners on. They can be found here.

Carlos Pena has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

Nick Markakis has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

In those 202 plate appearances, Carlos Pena has batted in 14 of the runners.

Nick Markakis has batted in 15.

Carlos Pena has had 158 plate appearances with runners on second.

Nick Markakis has had 144.

Carlos Pena has batted in 27 of those runners, which is 17.1%.

Nick Markakis has batted in 29 of his runners, which is 20.1%.

Carlos Pena has had 88 plate appearances with runners on third.

Nick Markakis has had 65.

Carlos Pena has driven in 30 of his 88, for a 34.1% clip.

Nick Markakis has driven in 23 of his 65, for a 35.4% clip.

When Carlos Pena steps up to the plate, 15.8% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

When Nick Markakis steps up to the plate, 16.3% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

Great post....Won't matter though.

[J.D.]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHF:SDGFBASKJGBS:KGBAS:GJKB

So the last time OldFan complained about THIS EXACT THING, the thread was closed before I had a chance to respond. So I'll just do that now.

The stats I'm about to use are barely stats, they only take into consideration RBI and plate appearances with runners on. They can be found here.

Carlos Pena has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

Nick Markakis has had 202 plate appearances with runners on first.

In those 202 plate appearances, Carlos Pena has batted in 14 of the runners.

Nick Markakis has batted in 15.

Carlos Pena has had 158 plate appearances with runners on second.

Nick Markakis has had 144.

Carlos Pena has batted in 27 of those runners, which is 17.1%.

Nick Markakis has batted in 29 of his runners, which is 20.1%.

Carlos Pena has had 88 plate appearances with runners on third.

Nick Markakis has had 65.

Carlos Pena has driven in 30 of his 88, for a 34.1% clip.

Nick Markakis has driven in 23 of his 65, for a 35.4% clip.

When Carlos Pena steps up to the plate, 15.8% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

When Nick Markakis steps up to the plate, 16.3% of the batters on base in front of him end up scoring in that plate appearance.

Oh, but that won't matter. All that matters are RBIs. It makes no difference if you have more chances to drive in runs or not.

Thank you, Lt Melmo, for settling this once and for all. Fantastic work.

[Lt Melmo]

Thanks guys, just doing my part.

"All I ever do is try to empty the sea with this teaspoon; all I can do is keep trying to empty the sea with this teaspoon."

[Malike]

Your ignorance continues to amaze me.

Do you think the Orioles pitching is as good as Tampas?

I have no dog in this fight, but I wonder how Nick Vs Carlos would look with 2007 numbers when Tampa was among the worst pitching. Now, if Carlos was much better than Nick during that span based on the teams playing each other only, does OF5's argument suddenly hold weight? I'm just asking because I think there is a fairly interesting discussion going on here.

Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split

TBD           18  17  75  67   8  21  1  0  4  16   6   0  16   1   0   1   0   2   0  2  .313  .373  .507  .881  .354   113   108 TBD

BAL           17  15  74  57  13  18  2  0  6  19  13   2  14   2   0   2   0   0   0  0  .316  .446  .667 1.113  .308   188   115 BAL

Nick is on the top, Pena on the bottom. Draw your own conclusions.

I conclude that Carlos Pena hits poor pitching better than Nick Markakis. :wedge:

[Matt]

I, of course, disagree with OldFan's reasons for preferring Pena, but I might take Pena over Markakis at the moment, anyway.

Pena's 1st half/2nd half splits:

	   	      G 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	K 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS 	 Pre-All Star 	  	73 	267 	38 	63 	10 	1 	14 	47 	39 	90 	0 	0 	.236 	.340 	.438 	.778 	 Post-All Star 	  	66 	223 	38 	58 	14 	1 	17 	55 	57 	76 	1 	1 	.260 	.418 	.561 	.978

Markakis's 1st half/2nd half splits:

	   	      G 	AB 	R 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	K 	SB 	CS 	AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS 	 Pre-All Star 	  	92 	355 	62 	107 	26 	0 	14 	50 	59 	74 	9 	4 	.301 	.402 	.493 	.895 	 Post-All Star 	  	64 	236 	44 	72 	22 	1 	6 	37 	40 	39 	1 	3 	.305 	.406 	.483 	.890

The big difference indicated in those splits is Pena's 1st half compared to his 2nd half. Wasn't he battling some kind of injury in the first half of the season? The stats sure seem to hint that he was, because his 2nd half stats are in line with his 2007 stats.

If Pena is the player he was in 2007 and has been in the 2nd half of this season, I take him over Markakis.

But not for any of that RBI-per-at-bat silliness.