Rank these ten pitchers (all time)

[Frobby]

Just thinking about King Felix’s place in the baseball pantheon.   How would you rank him compared to these other very good pitchers:

Felix Hernandez

Roy Owalt

Cole Hamels

Mark Buehrle

Orel Hershiser

David Cone 

Andy Pettitte

Chuck Finley

Tim Hudson 

Bret Saberhagen

 

[MurphDogg]

Without too much research this is my instinct -

Pettite, Buehrle, Cone, Hersheiser, Hernandez, Saberhagen, Hamels, Hudson, Finley, Oswalt.

I think Pettite is on a tier above the rest because he threw a season and a half worth of postseason starts.

I think Hernandez was the most exciting player of this group at his peak, as he was the only one in this group where, when I watched him live, I felt that anything could happen and I was watching an historically great pitcher. This is also true for Johan Santana although his peak was shorter, so he falls short of this group.

[NCRaven]

Big Buehrle fan.  Always thought he was underrated because he did have the big fastball.

[VaBird1]

Hershiser and Saberhagen were dominant at times and that is what pops in my head when I see this list.

[Yossarian]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Just thinking about King Felix’s place in the baseball pantheon.   How would you rank him compared to these other very good pitchers:

Felix Hernandez

Roy Owalt

Cole Hamels

Mark Buehrle

Orel Hershiser

David Cone 

Andy Pettitte

Chuck Finley

Tim Hudson 

Bret Saberhagen

 

Hershiser

Pettite

Hernandez

Buehrle

Saberhagen

Cone

Oswalt

Hamels

Finley

Hudson

[Yossarian]

4 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Hershiser

Pettite

Hernandez

Buehrle

Saberhagen

Cone

Oswalt

Hamels

Finley

Hudson

This list is different when I look at career WAR

[ArtVanDelay]

Cone

Hernandez

Hamels

Pettite

Saberhagen

Finley

Oswalt

Buehrle

Hershiser

Hudson

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

This list is different when I look at career WAR

Well, I don’t think career WAR is the sole criterion.   And, there are at least two flavors of WAR you can look at, that don’t always agree.   I think you have to consider how good the pitcher was at his peak, and how long his peak years were sustained, in addition to looking at cumulative career stats.    That said, I think this is a pretty tightly bunched group.    

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Well, I don’t think career WAR is the sole criterion.   And, there are at least two flavors of WAR you can look at, that don’t always agree.   I think you have to consider how good the pitcher was at his peak, and how long his peak years were sustained, in addition to looking at cumulative career stats.    That said, I think this is a pretty tightly bunched group.    

Curious, it is a close group. Did you use WAR to do it or off the top of your head?

[Frobby]

I looked at the WAR list, but didn’t list them in their WAR order.  And, I left out some guys in the same WAR range.

[eddie83]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I looked at the WAR list, but didn’t list them in their WAR order.  And, I left out some guys in the same WAR range.

Gotcha. 

[Yossarian]

59 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I don’t think career WAR is the sole criterion.   And, there are at least two flavors of WAR you can look at, that don’t always agree.   I think you have to consider how good the pitcher was at his peak, and how long his peak years were sustained, in addition to looking at cumulative career stats.    That said, I think this is a pretty tightly bunched group.    

So I wasted some time and put this together.  I looked at the best 5-year window of each pitcher and came up with an average season for that pitcher from his best five-year span.  This is what I found.

Pitcher / 5-yr window / ERA / W-L / K's / WHIP / Career WAR

Hernandez / 10-14 / 2.80 / 13-10 / 228 / 1.09 / 50.1

Oswalt / 02-06 / 3.07 / 17-9 / 174 / 1.19 / 50.0

Hamels / 08-12 / 3.26 / 13-9 / 197 / 1.13 / 59.4

Buehrle / 07-11 / 3.83 / 13-11 / 114 / 1.31 / 59.1

Hershiser / 85-89 / 2.10 / 17-11 / 171 / 1.15 / 56.0

Cone / 88-92 / 3.01 / 16-9 / 228 / 1.17 / 62.3

Pettite / 96-00 / 4.00 / 18-9 / 144 / 1.42 / 60.2

Finley / 89 -93 / 3.18 / 15-11 / 163 / 1.33 / 57.9

Hudson / 00-04 / 2.74 / 16-7 / 153 / 1.21 / 57.9

Saberhagen / 85-89 / 3.27 / 16-10 / 159 / 1.14 / 58.9

I found it most difficult to establish a best 5-year window for Pettite and Buehrle, they were pretty consistent over their entire careers.

[Yossarian]

4 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

So I wasted some time and put this together.  I looked at the best 5-year window of each pitcher and came up with an average season for that pitcher from his best five-year span.  This is what I found.

Pitcher / 5-yr window / ERA / W-L / K's / WHIP / Career WAR

Hernandez / 10-14 / 2.80 / 13-10 / 228 / 1.09 / 50.1

Oswalt / 02-06 / 3.07 / 17-9 / 174 / 1.19 / 50.0

Hamels / 08-12 / 3.26 / 13-9 / 197 / 1.13 / 59.4

Buehrle / 07-11 / 3.83 / 13-11 / 114 / 1.31 / 59.1

Hershiser / 85-89 / 2.10 / 17-11 / 171 / 1.15 / 56.0

Cone / 88-92 / 3.01 / 16-9 / 228 / 1.17 / 62.3

Pettite / 96-00 / 4.00 / 18-9 / 144 / 1.42 / 60.2

Finley / 89 -93 / 3.18 / 15-11 / 163 / 1.33 / 57.9

Hudson / 00-04 / 2.74 / 16-7 / 153 / 1.21 / 57.9

Saberhagen / 85-89 / 3.27 / 16-10 / 159 / 1.14 / 58.9

I found it most difficult to establish a best 5-year window for Pettite and Buehrle, they were pretty consistent over their entire careers.

Hershiser's ERA should be 2.70, not 2.10

[eddie83]

Pettitte

Hernandez 

———————

Cone 

Hershiser

Hamels

Saberhagen 

Buehrle

———————

Oswalt

Hudson 

Finley

 

I did this with no research. It’s a great list. 
 

Pettitte for me is top due to overall body of work.  Felix to me had most dominant stretch. 
 

3-7 was hard for me. Always thought Buehrle has been underrated. I could have put them in any order. 
 

The last 3 were all good pitchers but didn’t feel like they had the big moments or dominance as others. 

[eddie83]

At quick glance looking at the numbers I underrated Oswalt.
 

May offer an updated list tomorrow.