The second guessing Hyde thread.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We have no idea what discussions we had or who we could have gotten for whom.  So, I’m not going to spend my time second guessing based on inadequate information.  

Cool.

I'll make sure not to ask you to.

[drjohnnyfever1]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course it does.

I don't recall which of the current crop of doom and gloom posters said it but they were right about one thing.  You get a chance you have to take it.  You can't just assume that the O's will be perennial playoff team.  This might be the best chance this window has for a title.

Now obviously I'm not suggesting that they should have done something stupid but when you have the top ranked farm in MLB and the second lowest payroll you can do better than Flaherty and Fuji.
 

I respectfully disagree.  And while there are no guarantees about future talent, I'll trust what we've seen this GM put together on this field this year as an indication - a strong indication - of what's coming with the proper development. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Cool.

I'll make sure not to ask you to.

Good, you can ask all the other people who also don’t know anything more than I do.  

[tntoriole]

22 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, and I'm questioning that evaluation.

They have a bottleneck of middle infielders.  He couldn't find a way to utilize that?  To be very simplistic does the team need both Ortiz and Westburg?

His plan perhaps could be to do that as a better return this winter and thought the pen with Bautista and the additions of Webb and Fuji might suffice (he caught dumpster magic with Coulombe and Cano) .. turns out not but I trust his ability. 
 

All speculation of course .. I wanted Hader at the deadline but that wasn’t happening lol 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

His plan perhaps could be to do that as a better return this winter and thought the pen with Bautista and the additions of Webb and Fuji might suffice (he caught dumpster magic with Coulombe and Cano) .. turns out not but I trust his ability. 
 

All speculation of course .. I wanted Hader at the deadline but that wasn’t happening lol 

You might be right.

Of course the plan last offseason was to reinforce the front end of the rotation and that didn't happen.

I disagree with not making a stronger push at this year's deadline.  They were seemingly in a great position to strengthen the team and didn't.

[tntoriole]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You might be right.

Of course the plan last offseason was to reinforce the front end of the rotation and that didn't happen.

I disagree with not making a stronger push at this year's deadline.  They were seemingly in a great position to strengthen the team and didn't.

I agree with that .. but if Santander had hit that ball in the corner in the eighth in Game 1 and Grod had gone 6 strong .. I be feeling different about it lol 

[foxfield]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You might be right.

Of course the plan last offseason was to reinforce the front end of the rotation and that didn't happen.

I disagree with not making a stronger push at this year's deadline.  They were seemingly in a great position to strengthen the team and didn't.

I don’t know that I agree here. I think the front end of the rotation was clearly reinforced. Maybe not the way you thought it should have been, but the rotation is clearly better than last year. 
 

I agree that in the luxury of hindsight we may have made a stronger push at the deadline. But as others have said, we really do not know the extent of efforts. Only that in the end, and here is what I do agree with, we were in a great position to strengthen and dis not. 
 

But I will also say that there is still enough here to win now. The fact that the odds are against isn’t even that much different than they have been all year. 
 

If this team fails to advance and never make another run then clearly more effort should have been made. But no matter what, this is great experience for a club that has reasonably earned the right to expect post season play in the future. 

If the wildcard Phillies knock out the Braves again, are they making mistakes too?  What about the Dodgers?  Playoff baseball is a crapshoot even for experienced teams.  Just a few bounces and we could have been 2-0 singing the continued praises of this season.  We lost 2 games.  We are one of 8 teams still standing.  Let’s finish and see.

 

[Uli2001]

Atlanta today was down 0-4 to the Phillies going into the late innings, staring at a 0-2 deficit in the series as the #1 seed, just like the Orioles. They came back and won 5-4.

If the Orioles had managed to keep the deficit at 3 runs instead of 7 (the grand slam), they would have come back too. So the difference was basically Baker getting into the game. That was not a championship move by Hyde.

[EddeeEddee]

I don't see this as the Orioles not having good enough relievers to win.  Oriole pitching overall has been quite good the past couple of months.   

I was not able to watch much of yesterday's game, but I see this as the wrong relievers put in the wrong situation.  Why Baker -- who hadn't pitched in how long for the O's?  And why Webb -- who was rocked just the day before?  If Hall and Wells were to be saved for later, then whey not Kyle Gibson or possibly Flaherty?  Hindsight is 20/20 but even at the time pitching these two early in a close post-season game just felt like -- no!

[connja]

23 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

Any manager could lead a team as talented as this one to 101 wins. Take a look at my posting history to get an idea of how poor Hyde is as a manager before calling me an idiot.

Dispute my arguments (about Hyde being a terrible manager, which I've stated multiple times with examples and analysis) with facts instead of insults. 

I do appologize for the insult in my  post-game frustration.  My perspective is that leading a team is as much about building a strong team chemistry as in-game decisions.  Hyde has definitely done that.  And while this team is talented, it has almost no experience.   No one expected them to do what it has done, so dismissing the contribution of the manager is totally unfair.  

[Chavez Ravine]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You might be right.

Of course the plan last offseason was to reinforce the front end of the rotation and that didn't happen.

I disagree with not making a stronger push at this year's deadline.  They were seemingly in a great position to strengthen the team and didn't.

The deadline never seems like a good position to be buying. It’s like Christmas Eve at the mall. You end up buying stuff because you are expected to, not because you really need it in the end or it is a good deal.

[Can_of_corn]

5 hours ago, Chavez Ravine said:

The deadline never seems like a good position to be buying. It’s like Christmas Eve at the mall. You end up buying stuff because you are expected to, not because you really need it in the end or it is a good deal.

So you end up with Flaherty?

[CP0861]

9 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

I don't see this as the Orioles not having good enough relievers to win.  Oriole pitching overall has been quite good the past couple of months.   

I was not able to watch much of yesterday's game, but I see this as the wrong relievers put in the wrong situation.  Why Baker -- who hadn't pitched in how long for the O's?  And why Webb -- who was rocked just the day before?  If Hall and Wells were to be saved for later, then whey not Kyle Gibson or possibly Flaherty?  Hindsight is 20/20 but even at the time pitching these two early in a close post-season game just felt like -- no!

I was at both games. In my worthless opinion, there's no reasonable explanation for bringing in a guy who had 1 MLB appearance in the last 2 months into a situation where you absolutely, positively needed to stop the bleeding. Baker was not good in AAA in September either.....7 earned in 5 innings or so I think.

Long story short, I don't want the last minute AAA call up or the guy they just picked up off of waivers pitching in a crucial spot in the playoffs (although Webb bothers me far less than Baker).

Hyde simply outsmarted himself and tried to get cute against one of the best offensive teams in MLB.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by CP0861

[Aristotelian]

10 hours ago, EddeeEddee said:

I don't see this as the Orioles not having good enough relievers to win.  Oriole pitching overall has been quite good the past couple of months.   

I was not able to watch much of yesterday's game, but I see this as the wrong relievers put in the wrong situation.  Why Baker -- who hadn't pitched in how long for the O's?  And why Webb -- who was rocked just the day before?  If Hall and Wells were to be saved for later, then whey not Kyle Gibson or possibly Flaherty?  Hindsight is 20/20 but even at the time pitching these two early in a close post-season game just felt like -- no!

Flaherty did pitch (not much better than Baker) and the plan appears to be to use Gibson as a starter, regardless of whether they win or lose game 2. They put Baker on the roster to play a role and he didn't do his job. Whether he should have been on the roster at all is the better question.

On paper Webb that was a terrible situation for Webb, but I believe he was intended to start the next inning and got rushed into the game due to Baker's awfulness.  

[CP0861]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

They put Baker on the roster to play a role and he didn't do his job. Whether he should have been on the roster at all is the better question.

Yeah, I don't get that either.  Irvin was very effective out of the pen in August and September and has some decent numbers vs Texas, meanwhile Baker was stumbling in the minors with an ERA pushing 7.00 and WHIP pushing 2.00.

Edited October 10, 2023 by CP0861