The Downward Spiral

[fansince1988]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You want to tank for two more seasons after this one?

I don't want them to tank at all, but that seems to be the path they are taking. I don't see enough pitching depth in the minors to be competitive next season, or even the year after. Its going to be a long process. 

[Can_of_corn]

11 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

What in Elias' trade history makes you think he is capable of that?  

He is going to trade a very beloved player in Mancini and 90% of our reactions will be "he just got those guys?  Why?"

We know why.

[vab]

Quote

 

This club is at least a year away from being a year away. They absolutely should be listening on just about anybody on the major league roster. 

[Three Run Homer]

6 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

What in Elias' trade history makes you think he is capable of that?  

He is going to trade a very beloved player in Mancini and 90% of our reactions will be "he just got those guys?  Why?"

Elias' history in Baltimore is that he has no sentimental attachments to players.  Hanser Alberto and Renato Nunez had some good moments in O's uniforms, but at the end of the day, they weren't good enough to warrant arbitration-level salaries, so out they went.  Jonathan Villar was the team's best player his last season in Baltimore, but he was going to make too much money in arbitration, so he was traded for a bucket of balls.  

So his history suggests that he won't hesitate to trade Mancini, Santander or even John Means if the price is right.  Hopefully he will be making those decisions mostly on the basis of talent received in return, rather than salary savings.  Except for the Villar trade, when he had zero leverage, I think he has been able to get actual prospects back in most of his trades.  He even got a decent prospect for Andrew Cashner.  

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Elias' history in Baltimore is that he has no sentimental attachments to players.  Hanser Alberto and Renato Nunez had some good moments in O's uniforms, but at the end of the day, they weren't good enough to warrant arbitration-level salaries, so out they went.  Jonathan Villar was the team's best player his last season in Baltimore, but he was going to make too much money in arbitration, so he was traded for a bucket of balls.  

So his history suggests that he won't hesitate to trade Mancini, Santander or even John Means if the price is right.  Hopefully he will be making those decisions mostly on the basis of talent received in return, rather than salary savings.  Except for the Villar trade, when he had zero leverage, I think he has been able to get actual prospects back in most of his trades.  He even got a decent prospect for Andrew Cashner.  

Elias' trade history shows he has not traded anyone that is likely a part of the O's next contender.   Alberto, Nunez and Villar were not likely to be part of an O's contender.  Mancini, Santander and Means have a good change to help the O's to contention.

[Camden_yardbird]

This roster never plays above its weight.  Thats a coaching problem too.

[Robh21223]

Time to DFA Franco. He's GARBAGE!

[fansince1988]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias' trade history shows he has not traded anyone that is likely a part of the O's next contender.   Alberto, Nunez and Villar were not likely to be part of an O's contender.  Mancini, Santander and Means have a good change to help the O's to contention.

Not enough pieces behind them to contend, IMO. I still think, at best, we are 3-6 years away from contending, and that's if we draft (or trade) for pitching. They are clearly not going to spend on pitching, so they need to strike lightning in the draft with pitchers, (or trade), and move the fences back, to consistently compete in this division. 

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

Not enough pieces behind them to contend, IMO. I still think, at best, we are 3-6 years away from contending, and that's if we draft (or trade) for pitching. They are clearly not going to spend on pitching, so they need to strike lightning in the draft with pitchers, (or trade), and move the fences back, to consistently compete in this division. 

Means, Grayson, DL, Bradish.

[fansince1988]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Means, Grayson, DL, Bradish.

That would be striking lighting, hope you are right. 

[Orioles0615]

22 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

Not enough pieces behind them to contend, IMO. I still think, at best, we are 3-6 years away from contending, and that's if we draft (or trade) for pitching. They are clearly not going to spend on pitching, so they need to strike lightning in the draft with pitchers, (or trade), and move the fences back, to consistently compete in this division. 

They will need too though. They are going to have to put on big boy pants at some point and buy and arm and a bat. We aren't having a playoff team with just prospects. 

[Three Run Homer]

17 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

They will need too though. They are going to have to put on big boy pants at some point and buy and arm and a bat. We aren't having a playoff team with just prospects. 

Yes, but the question is when.  Spend too soon and you have a team with a couple of stars that is good enough to win 75 games, which keeps you out of the top draft positions, but not good enough to contend.  Like the O's when they had Miguel Tejada.   When you've developed enough impact young major league players to be ready to contend, that's when you spend on quality veterans to fill a couple of holes and put you over the top.  

The O's are nowhere near that point in my opinion.  They have one great pitcher who is 28 years old, a couple of good veteran players in their prime, some young players with potential who are still struggling to establish themselves in the majors, and some very good prospects at A and AA who if all goes well will be in the same place a year or two from now that Austin Hays, Dean Kremer and Ryan Mountcastle are today.  The Orioles are at least a year or two away from being at the point where it makes sense to pursue high-end free agents.  

[fansince1988]

15 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Yes, but the question is when.  Spend too soon and you have a team with a couple of stars that is good enough to win 75 games, which keeps you out of the top draft positions, but not good enough to contend.  Like the O's when they had Miguel Tejada.   When you've developed enough impact young major league players to be ready to contend, that's when you spend on quality veterans to fill a couple of holes and put you over the top.  

The O's are nowhere near that point in my opinion.  They have one great pitcher who is 28 years old, a couple of good veteran players in their prime, some young players with potential who are still struggling to establish themselves in the majors, and some very good prospects at A and AA who if all goes well will be in the same place a year or two from now that Austin Hays, Dean Kremer and Ryan Mountcastle are today.  The Orioles are at least a year or two away from being at the point where it makes sense to pursue high-end free agents.  

Glass half full, I respect that. I think its further out than that.

[Can_of_corn]

49 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

They will need too though. They are going to have to put on big boy pants at some point and buy and arm and a bat. We aren't having a playoff team with just prospects. 

Is playoffs the goal?

[Pickles]

Who was the big FA signing that led to the competitive window of 2012-2016?

How would those teams have fared had they successfully signed in 2009 Tex?