Where are the undervalued guys from other organizations?

[Sports Guy]

58 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

You mean like the haul we got for Manny?

Prospects are and will always be iffy.

Ok

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

You mean like the haul we got for Manny?

Prospects are and will always be iffy.

Agree completely but in fairness, judging what we got for Manny comes with an asterisk because let's face it we waited too long and had no leverage.  Manny was literally a dump to get something more than a draft pick.  We were lucky to get as much as we did.  If we were not going to extend him he should have been moved in 17.  

Man writing that is a reminder how long it's been.

My expectation is next year the ML performance matters.  It matters for players, coaches and executives.  I am not saying we have to win the AL East.  Hell, we can be miles better and still finish 5th.  But it is time to begin seeing improvement after this year.  No excuses.

[SilverRocket]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Perhaps, but I personally think Lopez could have value as a reliever and that value could have been maximized and potentially used in a trade instead of just filling innings.

I don't know that he would gain much value as a reliever. Everyone can see he's good through 4 innings.

I think they're holding out hope that his problems are fixable. His velocity doesn't drop, and his pitch count isn't super high before he falls apart. Maybe changing the pitch selection or some other adjustment could help. If he can turn into a 5-6 inning starter then his value jumps a ton.

[ChuckS]

He’s had one start. Tough to say he barely cracks 90 when he’s been consistently 90-93 with deception. His fastball is his best pitch. Same with Akin.

I think they are both going to be major leaguers for awhile. How productive they can be, is up in the air. 

[Redskins Rick]

15 hours ago, foxfield said:

Agree completely but in fairness, judging what we got for Manny comes with an asterisk because let's face it we waited too long and had no leverage.  Manny was literally a dump to get something more than a draft pick.  We were lucky to get as much as we did.  If we were not going to extend him he should have been moved in 17.  

Man writing that is a reminder how long it's been.

My expectation is next year the ML performance matters.  It matters for players, coaches and executives.  I am not saying we have to win the AL East.  Hell, we can be miles better and still finish 5th.  But it is time to begin seeing improvement after this year.  No excuses.

Your right.

But at some point in the rebuild, you keep your Mancinis and your Means, you start filling in around them.

You cant keep trading for prospects, it doesn't do anything but tease the fans that you are trying.

 

[Sports Guy]

34 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Your right.

But at some point in the rebuild, you keep your Mancinis and your Means, you start filling in around them.

You cant keep trading for prospects, it doesn't do anything but tease the fans that you are trying.

 

I don’t think at almost any point you keep Mancini.

By that I mean, of course you don’t trade him mid season iF you are contending and he is playing well.

However, a 30 year old player that is limited on the bases and defensively is not a player you would like to lock up long term.  That’s when you make mistakes.

[Redskins Rick]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think at almost any point you keep Mancini.

By that I mean, of course you don’t trade him mid season iF you are contending and he is playing well.

However, a 30 year old player that is limited on the bases and defensively is not a player you would like to lock up long term.  That’s when you make mistakes.

You are not wrong.  But, other than those 2 on this team, who do you keep?

Just at some point, you keep your better players and stop talking rebuilt and show us.

I dont want another 14 year period where this team sucks, Im too old for that. Once was enough.

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

You are not wrong.  But, other than those 2 on this team, who do you keep?

Just at some point, you keep your better players and stop talking rebuilt and show us.

I dont want another 14 year period where this team sucks, Im too old for that. Once was enough.

This team is going to be good going forward because of what is in the minors and, in theory, because you have a ton of money you can spend in the upcoming years to augment the team.

Trading guys like Mancini and Mullins doesn’t hurt that.  Trading Means could because it’s hard to find good pitching...but if you can get the right offer for him....

[foxfield]

5 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

Your right.

But at some point in the rebuild, you keep your Mancinis and your Means, you start filling in around them.

You cant keep trading for prospects, it doesn't do anything but tease the fans that you are trying.

 

I think we are pretty close to the spot where you have to choose who you build around. But keep in mind that you will need to decide who management will spend to keep and if we are smart...if you are not keeping them they go before their value is gone.

I don't think we should move Means but I would if someone unloaded their system for him.  Mancini is a tougher case.  He is a heck of a leader and a heck of a story and a heck of a person.  But he may not be the guy to sink FA dollars into and that means he could get moved this year or next and have some pretty decent value.  Not saying we should...but that guys like Mancini are exactly the type of players the Rays try to move while they have years left.  If you do it consistently it shouldn't be painful.  

I dont have a crystal ball and there is a lot of year left.  We should not be as bad as we have looked in May and should not be as good as we looked in April.  I think we are also only three weeks into the minor league season and that is honestly where we should be looking for improvement.  I am more optimistic than most, I admit.  I think Covid has added a year to the rebuild.  But I am pretty impartial to judging how we have done.  I think next year is when that begins.

I hope we keep Means and Mancini.  If either go this year, the return should be pretty special.  There was an article in The Atlantic this am that suggested the Yankees make an offer too good to refuse for Mullins.  Again, I hope not, but for the right package, we don't have anyone on the current major league roster I would deem untouchable. 

[ThomasTomasz]

I think getting last year out of Iglesias counts as finding an undervalued veteran out there.  Same goes for Galvis, who is currently posting his best wRC+ and ISO numbers of his career, and for the first, it's not even close.  We also ended up turning Alberto into a hitting machine, but never got anything in return for him.  

Pitching-wise, Paul Fry was a DD acquisition, but it seems that our approach to analytics has definitely helped him in 2020 and 2021 after we got things established.  John Means was an afterthought as well.  

So we have some success in developing something out of nothing.  The problem is, how often do your Jose Bautista, Justin Turner, Yermin Mercedes or Charlie Morton type players come along?  Not very often.  In many cases, it is taking fringe talent like a Iglesias or Galvis and getting an above average season or two out of them.  

[ThomasTomasz]

On 5/28/2021 at 7:50 AM, Redskins Rick said:

Your right.

But at some point in the rebuild, you keep your Mancinis and your Means, you start filling in around them.

You cant keep trading for prospects, it doesn't do anything but tease the fans that you are trying.

 

You build the pipeline so when it is time to compete, you go out and purchase some of the talent.  

The Padres this year decided to compete, and went out and sold prospects to acquire their top three starters- Yu Darvish, Joe Musgrove and Blake Snell.  The Astros ended up trading for Verlander and Grienke.  The Cubs added Jon Lester through free agency and then got Aroldis Chapman.  

Not all of your prospects will pan out.  You choose some to keep, and some you deal.  But you have to have an established pipeline that replenishes itself, and we couldn't do that by ignoring the IFA market and analytics department.  The Dodgers just keep getting richer because of their focus on the two.  The Rays are able to compete despite a restrictive payroll because of those two things.  Otherwise we will just go through another couple years of competing, and lamenting that we didn't sell off sooner.  

We have to get the talent pipeline going.  

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, ThomasTomasz said:

You build the pipeline so when it is time to compete, you go out and purchase some of the talent.  

The Padres this year decided to compete, and went out and sold prospects to acquire their top three starters- Yu Darvish, Joe Musgrove and Blake Snell.  The Astros ended up trading for Verlander and Grienke.  The Cubs added Jon Lester through free agency and then got Aroldis Chapman.  

Not all of your prospects will pan out.  You choose some to keep, and some you deal.  But you have to have an established pipeline that replenishes itself, and we couldn't do that by ignoring the IFA market and analytics department.  The Dodgers just keep getting richer because of their focus on the two.  The Rays are able to compete despite a restrictive payroll because of those two things.  Otherwise we will just go through another couple years of competing, and lamenting that we didn't sell off sooner.  

We have to get the talent pipeline going.  

Exactly, the pipeline is the main thing, and once that set up you no longer need foolish extensions or overpriced free agents.

I am very confident that the free agent system will be revised in the players favor during the CBA so it won’t be an issue anymore. But right now teams are paying for a players past, and the better and longer the past the more overpriced the future. With a good pipeline, we can trade guys at peak value and let someone else pay for the decline years.