How do you define rushing a prospect?

[orioles119]

I believe it is related to their draft slot.  A first rounder should zoom through the minors (Adley), while someone who was a very late round selection needs to prove it more (Means).  Prove it meaning, not necessarily dominance, but consistency.

[eddie83]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

For anyone who’d like a trip down memory lane:

A lot of fun takes in that thread.   

Thanks for posting this. Fun to go back in time. Going to be 10 year anniversary of that team next year. Just crazy.  
 

Can’t wait until the buzz around the team is like it was that year. What a fun season.  

[HowAboutThat]

19 hours ago, forphase1 said:

It depends on the exact situation and the makeup of the players, but we can't forget that this isn't viewed in a vacuum, every decision impacts more than just the one player.  Let's take Gunner Henderson as an example, back when he was mashing low A pitching, when we brought him up, it meant we either 1) took away at bats from another prospect or 2) we moved another prospect up or down to make room.  There are only so many innings and so many at bats.  So if you bring up a player who isn't ready (as evidenced by their struggles) you are taking away time from another prospect who may be more prepared to take advantage of those innings/at bats.  And while I think the psychological side of sports is sometimes over blown, there are some individuals who don't handle failure well, and would be better served by not being thrown to the wolves, so to speak, until they are ready to do so.  I personally think that's vastly overrated, but you do hear about those who struggle, and that struggle makes them press, which simply compounds the problem.  

I do, however, think there is a danger in bringing them up too soon.  Again, going back to the building block and mathematics example, if the foundations are not properly set, then it may be close to impossible to build upon them properly.  My kid may be a math wiz, but if I don't give him/her the time needed to get addition down well, they may never properly learn multiplication.  I don't think it would be wise, for example, to take an 18 year old high school player and immediately put him in AAA and just let him struggle and try to figure it out.  He NEEDS the experience and adjustments needed at the A and AA level.  No, I'm not saying that every single step MUST be made (low A to high A to AA to AAA to MLB) and we can see examples of those who jumped a level here and there and ended up fine.  But I think that's more of the exception than the rule.  I'm one that certainly would rather seem them have success at the various levels before moving them up, and just how long the success needs to be sustained is up for discussion.  I thought Gunnar should have been promoted earlier than he was, but as I noted before there are many factors to come into play beyond just his performance.   

In a nutshell, I think sometimes we miss the forest for the trees in some of these discussions, from both sides.  

Excellent comment 

[HowAboutThat]

15 hours ago, maybenxtyr said:

A lot of posters in that thread that I wish were still around. I read the whole thread again...I remember that night as I was cruising home from NY. It really was a great time to be and O's fan!

And as bad as he was, Betemit was still worth .4 WAR. Wouldn’t we kill to have that at third right now?

Edited June 25, 2021 by Philip

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

And as bad as he was, Betemit was still worth .4 WAR. Wouldn’t we kill to have that at third bad right now?

Franco is at .2…on a page to be better than .4!!

[Jammer7]

On 6/24/2021 at 2:19 PM, Bahama O's Fan said:

Machado, rushed?

Yes, I think so, but I can build a case either way. He was recalled prematurely and had to change positions. He had what, 3 months in AA? It took him two more years before he hit his stride offensively. The knee injuries were a part of all of that, but I believe he would have had a better offensive beginning if he had waited until the following year, ideally, with a real development team in place.

On the other hand, he was excellent defensively and hit better than other alternatives the Orioles had at that time. There was many adjustments he had to make on the fly at the major league level. He adapted fairly well, sure. The player development people were much less effective than the current situation, and Buck must have felt that Bobby Dickerson and Scott Coolbaugh would better develop Manny in the middle of a playoff race than what he would have gotten in the minors. Manny is a special talent, a mentally tough individual. And he had some veteran leadership in Hardy and such around him. 

Overall, it was a gamble and it worked out in some ways. There was so much buffoonery surrounding the way he was handled, it just hastened his departure as a villain to some, unfortunately. 

[Just Regular]

23 hours ago, Frobby said:

For anyone who’d like a trip down memory lane:

A lot of fun takes in that thread.   

I only got to Page 2 just now but I enjoyed the immediate Roch tweet "club not guaranteeing he will start tomorrow, just that it will be his debut"

(Narrator voice - he started tomorrow)

My man Roch has been tamping down expectations in the fanbase on the club's behalf like its his job.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

I only got to Page 2 just now but I enjoyed the immediate Roch tweet "club not guaranteeing he will start tomorrow, just that it will be his debut"

(Narrator voice - he started tomorrow)

My man Roch has been tamping down expectations in the fanbase on the club's behalf like its his job.

It is his job.

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, OrioleDog said:

I only got to Page 2 just now but I enjoyed the immediate Roch tweet "club not guaranteeing he will start tomorrow, just that it will be his debut"

(Narrator voice - he started tomorrow)

My man Roch has been tamping down expectations in the fanbase on the club's behalf like its his job.

I read the whole thread to see if I had a take - it’s on p. 13.    Also, Keith Law was quoted as saying “too aggressive” while Dave Cameron liked the move.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I read the whole thread to see if I had a take - it’s on p. 13.    Also, Keith Law was quoted as saying “too aggressive” while Dave Cameron liked the move.  

I like your take.

 

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I like your take.

 

Yeah it wasn’t bad.  I was in favor of the call-up even though I thought he’d probably not be as good defensively at 3B as Andino and not as good offensively as Betemit.   As it turned out, he was otherworldly on defense and (that season) just a hair under Betemit offensively.  

[Sports Guy]

Manoah was drafted out of college in 2019.  Has pitched 35 MiL innings and is now holding his own in the minors early on in his career.