I'm starting to think we are 4-5 years away from competing for real

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Change in ownership combined with some really unusual cost cutting moves.

I do think the economics have changed some since 2017, with the pandemic disruption and general attendance declines.    So, I’m not suggesting they are going back up to $140 mm real soon.   But I’m by no means ready to conclude that ownership is now in the Oakland/Tampa mindset long term.   

[Explosivo]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Got some examples of folks considered poor middle infielders that got coached up into average or better middle infielders? 

I know the bat never surfaced for the guy but we have a recent example in Ruiz. Came in with an inconsistent glove in 2019 and by 2020/2021 was a different player at the position. The bat never did catch up however. Gives me hope those same coaches will get Jones to where he needs to be defensively. 
 

Keep in mind too with Jones that he’s traditionally been a center fielder. It’s going to take a little more time for him to adapt at second.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Explosivo

[GuidoSarducci]

16 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I mean, this team spent $140 mm+ on payroll annually from 2015-17, so what makes you think they won’t spend when the time is right?   The time isn’t right yet, but I expect a steady ramp up beginning as early as this offseason.   Don’t forget that in 2023 we are no longer paying Davis $17 mm/yr (we’ll still be escrowing a bit less than $6 mm/yr through 2024 to fund his deferred comp payments).    

The MASN ruling going against them.  Or at least that will be the excuse
 

It’s a possibility the Orioles turn to a permanent small market strategy and don’t break $100 million payroll until the bottom third of the league starts spending that much. 

[Sports Guy]

30 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

The bat is there however. Of the two, which do you think is easier to coach, hitting or fielding?

Well, we don’t know that the bat is there.  It’s been there so far this year but it has been spotty in the past.

I have more faith long term in Vavra than Jones but I would like to see Jones get his chance.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

I know the bat never surfaced for the guy but we have a recent example in Ruiz. Came in with an inconsistent glove in 2019 and by 2020/2021 was a different player at the position. The bat never did catch up however. Gives me hope those same coaches will get Jones to where he needs to be defensively. 
 

Keep in mind too with Jones that he’s traditionally been a center fielder. It’s going to take a little more time for him to adapt at second.

Ruiz isn't even an actual middle infielder.  156.1 innings over three seasons doesn't count.

 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Got some examples of folks considered poor middle infielders that got coached up into average or better middle infielders? 

Schoop didn’t have a good defensive rep in the minors and he was fine up here.  His arm made up for stuff though and I doubt Jones has that arm.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Schoop didn’t have a good defensive rep in the minors and he was fine up here.  His arm made up for stuff though and I doubt Jones has that arm.

Fun fact, he played more games at short than he did second in the minors.  Rounding error difference in games, games started and total innings.

I recall folks not liking his glove at short, I don't recall anyone thinking he was a Jones level butcher at second.

 

[emmett16]

56 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

Have you been paying attention to Henderson, Westburg and Jones? That’s your future at third, short and second. All are performing above expectation. All will be on the team at the same time. Jones first of course.

Jones batted .236 / .706 ops in July with 31 SO in 89 ABs.  He's 1 for his last 19.  Plays poor D.  Wouldn't say he's setting the world on fire.  

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Jones batted .236 / .706 ops in July with 31 SO in 89 ABs.  Wouldn't say he's setting the world on fire.  

They can coach up his hitting at the same time they coach up his defense.

 

[Explosivo]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They can coach up his hitting at the same time they coach up his defense.

 

That’s pretty funny. Bad month aside, he went Aberdeen to AAA and over the year has hit .256/.438/.800 he has power with 6 homers, 3 triples, and 8 doubles. 28 walks as well. Been a bad month but don’t discount what he did beforehand. I tell ya though, I wonder if some of you guys really want us to be good or are more comfortable looking through a lens of doubt and disappointment. This team shouldn’t also be a reflection of your lives. 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

That’s pretty funny. Bad month aside, he went Aberdeen to AAA and over the year has hit .256/.438/.800 he has power with 6 homers, 3 triples, and 8 doubles. 28 walks as well. Been a bad month but don’t discount what he did beforehand. I tell ya though, I wonder if some of you guys really want us to be good or are more comfortable looking through a lens of doubt and disappointment. This team shouldn’t also be a reflection of your lives. 

He has an 800 slugging?  
 

[Il BuonO]

12 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

That’s pretty funny....I tell ya though, I wonder if some of you guys really want us to be good or are more comfortable looking through a lens of doubt and disappointment. This team shouldn’t also be a reflection of your lives. 

Maybe you’re a little too excited about a guy who has shown to be above average on offense and way below that on defense?

Although, maybe it’s me. My life sucks.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

Maybe you’re a little too excited about a guy who has shown to be above average on offense and way below that on defense?

Although, maybe it’s me. My life sucks.

I’m not even sure if he’s above average on offense.   His track record is uneven.  I still think we will give him an opportunity at some point.  

[gold21030]

23 hours ago, kidrock said:

After reading through an article on who the Cubs may potentially trade away, I began to think that we are further away in the rebuild than I originally thought.  They have many decent to plus players who many think they are going to trade.  If they can't compete with a core of Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Kimbrel, Hendricks, Davies, Wisdom, it makes me feel like the O's are just so far away.

Maybe I am being foolish or dramatic, but look at St Louis, Wash DC, Atlanta, Philly, NYM.  All have much better rosters, yet they are all around 500.  The Braves weren't doing that great before Acuna got hurt from what I remember.

Am I off base here?

Many of these teams listed have good cores but really lack in depth. Washington, for example, has Turner, Soto, Scherzer and no one else really exciting.

Robles is a glove first outfielder, Schwarber and Bell are lousy fielders and streaky hitters. Strasburg is constantly hurt and Corbin has been lousy. Their bullpen is meh and the rest of their pieces are meh too.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, gold21030 said:

Many of these teams listed have good cores but really lack in depth. Washington, for example, has Turner, Soto, Scherzer and no one else really exciting.

Robles is a glove first outfielder, Schwarber and Bell are lousy fielders and streaky hitters. Strasburg is constantly hurt and Corbin has been lousy. Their bullpen is meh and the rest of their pieces are meh too.

Well isn't that kind of the Op's point?

We don't have a core or depth.

Bringing up some top prospects- if they're even successful- might give us a core, but that won't make us a good team.