John Sickels' O's Top 20

[Frobby]

The Dodgers are up now -- surprisingly, not that strong. The complete list:

KCR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 6 B, 1 B-, 10 C+, 1 C ----Top 10: 3.00 Top 20: 2.65

MIN -- 2 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 12 C+ ------------- Top 10: 2.77 Top 20: 2.55

ATL -- 1 A-, 3 B+, 3 B, 6 B-, 7 C+ -------- Top 10: 3.07 Top 20: 2.75

PHI -- 3 B, 5 B-, 9 C+, 3 C --------------- Top 10: 2.70 Top 20: 2.47

TAM -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ ------- Top 10: 3.00 Top 20: 2.67

ARI -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 3 C+, 10 C -------- Top 10: 2.80 Top 20: 2.40

BAL -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 7 C+, 4 C ----Top 10: 3.00 Top 20: 2.60

WAS - 2 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 11 C+, 2 C -------- Top 10: 2.70 Top 20: 2.48

CHC --1 B+, 2 B, 1 3 B-. 7 C+, 7 C --------Top 10: 2.66 Top 20: 2.38

BOS -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 3 B, 8 B-, 7 C+ --------Top 10: 2.93 Top 20: 2.68

CIN -- 1 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 10 C+, 2 C ---------Top 10: 2.77 Top 20: 2.52

TOR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 7 C+, 7 C ----Top 10: 2.73 Top 20: 2.42

MIL -- 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+, 3 C ----------Top 10: 2.83 Top 20: 2.53

OAK -- 2 A-, 6 B, 7 B-, 5 C+ --------------Top 10: 3.07 Top 20: 2.78

TEX -- 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+ ----Top 10: 3.23 Top 20: 2.80

COL -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+, 8 C ----Top 10: 2.70 Top 20: 2.38

NYM -- 2 B+, 3 B, 12 C+, 3 C -------------Top 10: 2.73 Top 20: 2.48

CWS -- 2 B+,1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+ and 8 C ------Top 10: 2.67 Top 20: 2.37

SFG -- 1 A, 1 A-,1 B+,1 B, 3 B-, 12 C+, 1 C Top 10: 2.90 Top 20: 2.60

NYY -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 13 C+ -------------Top 10: 2.67 Top 20: 2.50

LAD -- 1 B+, 3 B, 2 B-, 8 C+, 6 C ----------Top 10: 2.70 Top 20: 2.42

With 21 teams now complete, the O's Top 10 is still tied for 4th, and the Top 20 is tied for 7th. The teams remaining are CLE, DET, FLA, HOU, LAA, PIT, SDP, STL and SEA.

[tywright]

With 21 teams now complete, the O's Top 10 is still tied for 4th, and the Top 20 is tied for 7th. The teams remaining are CLE, DET, FLA, HOU, LAA, PIT, SDP, STL and SEA.

I'd expect only the Marlins to be ahead of us, which puts us a #8. Not bad when you think about how poor our offensive depth is. If you rank farm systems by pitching, we'd be in the top 5.

[orioole28]

Updated ranking

Top 20

(1)TEX -- 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+ ---- Top 20: 2.80

(2)OAK -- 2 A-, 6 B, 7 B-, 5 C+ ---------------Top 20: 2.78

(3)ATL -- 1 A-, 3 B+, 3 B, 6 B-, 7 C+ -------- Top 20: 2.75

(4)BOS -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 3 B, 8 B-, 7 C+ --------Top 20: 2.68

(5)TAM -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ ------- Top 20: 2.67

(6)KCR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 6 B, 1 B-, 10 C+, 1 C ----Top 20: 2.65

(7)BAL -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 7 C+, 4 C ---- Top 20: 2.60

(8)SFG -- 1 A, 1 A-,1 B+,1 B, 3 B-, 12 C+, 1 C --Top 20: 2.60

(9)MIN -- 2 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 12 C+ ------------ Top 20: 2.55

(10)MIL -- 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+, 3 C ---------- Top 20: 2.53

(11)CIN -- 1 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 10 C+, 2 C --------- Top 20: 2.52

(12)NYY -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 13 C+ ----------- Top 20: 2.50

(13)NYM --2 B+, 3 B, 12 C+, 3 C ------------- Top 20: 2.48

(14)WAS - 2 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 11 C+, 2 C -------- Top 20: 2.48

(15)PHI -- 3 B, 5 B-, 9 C+, 3 C --------------- Top 20: 2.47

(16)TOR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 7 C+, 7 C ---- Top 20: 2.42

(17)LAD -- 1 B+, 3 B, 2 B-, 8 C+, 6 C ---------- Top 20: 2.42

(18)ARI -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 3 C+, 10 C -------- Top 20: 2.40

(19)COL -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+, 8 C ---- Top 20: 2.38

(20)CHC --1 B+, 2 B, 1 3 B-. 7 C+, 7 C -------- Top 20: 2.38

(21)CWS -- 2 B+,1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+ and 8 C ------ Top 20: 2.37

Top 10

(1)TEX Top 10: 3.23

(2)OAK Top 10: 3.07

(3)ATL Top 10: 3.07

(4)TAM Top 10: 3.00

(5)KCR Top 10: 3.00

(6)BAL Top 10: 3.00

(7)SF Top 10: 2.90

(8)BOS Top 10: 2.93

(9)MIL Top 10: 2.83

(10)ARI Top 10: 2.80

(11)MIN Top 10: 2.77

(12)CIN Top 10: 2.77

(13)NYM Top 10: 2.73

(14)TOR Top 10: 2.73

(15)WAS Top 10: 2.70

(16)PHI Top 10: 2.70

(17)LAD Top 10: 2.70

(18)COL Top 10: 2.70

(19)NYY Top 10: 2.67

(20)CHW Top 10: 2.67

(21)CHC Top 10: 2.66

These stats courtesy from Frobby

[Frobby]

Updated ranking....

These stats courtesy from Frobby

I think from here on out we should just update your format, since it's more useful.

[PaulBako]

The Indians:

2 B+

3 B

3 B-

13 C+

[alexei606]

I think from here on out we should just update your format, since it's more useful.

However, ties should be rated the same. Should look like this:

Top 20

(1)TEX -- 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+ ---- Top 20: 2.80

(2)OAK -- 2 A-, 6 B, 7 B-, 5 C+ ---------------Top 20: 2.78

(3)ATL -- 1 A-, 3 B+, 3 B, 6 B-, 7 C+ -------- Top 20: 2.75

(4)BOS -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 3 B, 8 B-, 7 C+ --------Top 20: 2.68

(5)TAM -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ ------- Top 20: 2.67

(6)KCR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 6 B, 1 B-, 10 C+, 1 C ----Top 20: 2.65

(7)BAL -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 7 C+, 4 C ---- Top 20: 2.60

(7)SFG -- 1 A, 1 A-,1 B+,1 B, 3 B-, 12 C+, 1 C --Top 20: 2.60

(9)MIN -- 2 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 12 C+ ------------ Top 20: 2.55

(10)MIL -- 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+, 3 C ---------- Top 20: 2.53

(11)CIN -- 1 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 10 C+, 2 C --------- Top 20: 2.52

(12)NYY -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 13 C+ ----------- Top 20: 2.50

(13)NYM --2 B+, 3 B, 12 C+, 3 C ------------- Top 20: 2.48

(13WAS - 2 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 11 C+, 2 C -------- Top 20: 2.48

(15)PHI -- 3 B, 5 B-, 9 C+, 3 C --------------- Top 20: 2.47

(16)TOR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 7 C+, 7 C ---- Top 20: 2.42

(16)LAD -- 1 B+, 3 B, 2 B-, 8 C+, 6 C ---------- Top 20: 2.42

(18)ARI -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 3 C+, 10 C -------- Top 20: 2.40

(19)COL -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+, 8 C ---- Top 20: 2.38

(19)CHC --1 B+, 2 B, 1 3 B-. 7 C+, 7 C -------- Top 20: 2.38

(21)CWS -- 2 B+,1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+ and 8 C ------ Top 20: 2.37

Top 10

(1)TEX Top 10: 3.23

(2)OAK Top 10: 3.07

(3)ATL Top 10: 3.07

(4)TAM Top 10: 3.00

(4)KCR Top 10: 3.00

(4)BAL Top 10: 3.00

(7)BOS Top 10: 2.93

(8)SF Top 10: 2.90

(9)MIL Top 10: 2.83

(10)ARI Top 10: 2.80

(11)MIN Top 10: 2.77

(11)CIN Top 10: 2.77

(13)NYM Top 10: 2.73

(13)TOR Top 10: 2.73

(15)WAS Top 10: 2.70

(15)PHI Top 10: 2.70

(15)LAD Top 10: 2.70

(18)COL Top 10: 2.70

(19)NYY Top 10: 2.67

(19)CHW Top 10: 2.67

(21)CHC Top 10: 2.66

These stats courtesy from Frobby

I also switched BOS and SF in the top 10 - BOS is .03 better than SF. Pretty interesting that Sickels rates Texas, Oak and Atl the top three in both top 20 and top 10 and Baltimore shows a strong top 10 (mainly due to our top four) and they drop below BOS, TAM and KC in the top 20. Need to work on the depth of the system more and that has been just about universally noted in rankings that I have read. The Giants also look like that they have improved their farm system particularly depth wise. Still, BOS and TAM are looking pretty impressive - we need to do more than follow TAM's model unless McPhail is really tanking this season and more to get higher picks.

[Frobby]

However, ties should be rated the same.

What ooriole28 was doing was breaking the tie according to the ranking in the other category. In other words, if the O's, Rays and Royals have an equal score for their top 10, he listed them on the Top 10 list in order of their Top 20 scores. If the O's and Giants were tied in the Top 20, he listed them in the Top 20 list in order of their top 10 scores. That tie-breaker is OK with me, and the reader can see the actual scores in any event.

[Frobby]

The Indians:

2 B+

3 B

3 B-

13 C+

Actully, it's 2 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ ----- Top 10: 2.87 Top 20: 2.60

That's a nice, deep system. Any system that has only C+ and up through its top 20 is doing well in depth.

[Stotle]

Top 10: 2.93 Top 20: 2.63

That's a nice, deep system. Any system that has only C+ and up through its top 20 is doing well in depth.

Yeah, I expect the Indians to be right around a Top 10 org.

[orioole28]

Updated ranking

Top 20

(1)TEX -- 1 A, 2 A-, 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+ ----- Top 20: 2.80

(2)OAK -- 2 A-, 6 B, 7 B-, 5 C+ ----------------Top 20: 2.78

(3)ATL -- 1 A-, 3 B+, 3 B, 6 B-, 7 C+ ---------- Top 20: 2.75

(4)BOS -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 3 B, 8 B-, 7 C+ ----------Top 20: 2.68

(5)TAM -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ --------- Top 20: 2.67

(6)KCR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 6 B, 1 B-, 10 C+, 1 C -----Top 20: 2.65

(7)BAL -- 1 A, 3 B+, 1 B, 4 B-, 7 C+, 4 C -------Top 20: 2.60

(8)SFG -- 1 A, 1 A-,1 B+,1 B, 3 B-, 12 C+, 1 C --Top 20: 2.60

(9)CLE --2 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 11 C+ --------------- Top 20: 2.60

(10)MIN -- 2 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 12 C+ ------------- Top 20: 2.55

(11)MIL -- 1 B+, 5 B, 2 B-, 9 C+, 3 C ---------- Top 20: 2.53

(12)CIN -- 1 B+, 3 B, 4 B-, 10 C+, 2 C --------- Top 20: 2.52

(13)NYY -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 13 C+ ------------- Top 20: 2.50

(14)NYM --2 B+, 3 B, 12 C+, 3 C -------------- Top 20: 2.48

(15)WAS - 2 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 11 C+, 2 C --------- Top 20: 2.48

(16)PHI -- 3 B, 5 B-, 9 C+, 3 C ---------------- Top 20: 2.47

(17)TOR -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 3 B-, 7 C+, 7 C ---- Top 20: 2.42

(18)LAD -- 1 B+, 3 B, 2 B-, 8 C+, 6 C ---------- Top 20: 2.42

(19)ARI -- 1 B+, 1 B, 5 B-, 3 C+, 10 C --------- Top 20: 2.40

(20)COL -- 1 A-, 1 B+, 1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+, 8 C ---- Top 20: 2.38

(21)CHC --1 B+, 2 B, 1 3 B-. 7 C+, 7 C -------- Top 20: 2.38

(22)CWS -- 2 B+,1 B, 2 B-, 7 C+ and 8 C ------ Top 20: 2.37

Top 10

(1)TEX Top 10: 3.23

(2)OAK Top 10: 3.07

(3)ATL Top 10: 3.07

(4)TAM Top 10: 3.00

(5)KCR Top 10: 3.00

(6)BAL Top 10: 3.00

(7)BOS Top 10: 2.93

(8)SF Top 10: 2.90

(9)CLE Top 10: 2.87

(10)MIL Top 10: 2.83

(11)ARI Top 10: 2.80

(12)MIN Top 10: 2.77

(13)CIN Top 10: 2.77

(14)NYM Top 10: 2.73

(15)TOR Top 10: 2.73

(16)WAS Top 10: 2.70

(17)PHI Top 10: 2.70

(18)LAD Top 10: 2.70

(19)COL Top 10: 2.70

(20)NYY Top 10: 2.67

(21)CHW Top 10: 2.67

(22)CHC Top 10: 2.66

These stats courtesy from Frobby

Thanks for the catch on SF and Bos, but I'm going ahead with the tie-breaker and that is :

if the O's, Rays and Royals have an equal score for their top 10, he listed them on the Top 10 list in order of their Top 20 scores. If the O's and Giants were tied in the Top 20, he listed them in the Top 20 list in order of their top 10 scores. That tie-breaker is OK with me, and the reader can see the actual scores in any event.

Thanks Frobby for explaining it, I couldn't of done it better!

[tywright]

I'm still drawn to the fact that Sickels didn't rank Spoone, Henson, Bundy, or Miclat in our top 20. Yet he gives Oliver Drake a C+ rating. And how is Hoes a C prospect, when someone like Cord Phelps (Cleveland 2B) is given a C+ rating.

Sickels also said about the O's system:

The guys 13-20 are all pretty tentative with the grades, lots of Cs I considered for C+ in this group, and some of that will change.

And he just said this about the Indians' system:

As usual, don’t sweat so much about where the Grade C+/C types rank exactly on this list. After I get past the top 10 I don’t worry so much about exact placement, since I’m trying to concentrate on the book right now. Some of the Grade C guys could be C+ in the book, and vice versa.

Also how does Bergeson get s C/C+ rating, when Kyle Weiland (Boston SP)gets a B-??

Basically, Sickels is very inconsistent with his ratings and I think our depth is better than what we're getting credit for. We're higher than a 2.60 GPA.

[Lucky Jim]

I'm still drawn to the fact that Sickels didn't rank Spoone, Henson, Bundy, or Miclat in our top 20. Yet he gives Oliver Drake a C+ rating. And how is Hoes a C prospect, when someone like Cord Phelps (Cleveland 2B) is given a C+ rating.

Sickels also said about the O's system:

And he just said this about the Indians' system:

Also how does Bergeson get s C/C+ rating, when Kyle Weiland (Boston SP)gets a B-??

Basically, Sickels is very inconsistent with his ratings and I think our depth is better than what we're getting credit for. We're higher than a 2.60 GPA.

I'd guess it's because Weiland put this line up in his 21 year old year:

Team League W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO GO/AO AVG  LOW NYP   3 3 1.50 15 10 0 0 0 60.0 36 17 10 1 10 68 1.64 .166 

The H/9, K/9 and BB/K ratios are phenomenal. A little old for the league, but certainly bode better than a K-rate of 4.5.

[Frobby]

Basically, Sickels is very inconsistent with his ratings and I think our depth is better than what we're getting credit for. We're higher than a 2.60 GPA.

Maybe, but I think BA also has commented that we're strong on top but our depth is not that great. Sickels has changed a few grades as he's gone along and we'll see if he changes any Oriole grades now that he has evaluated more teams. Don't forget we were the 5th or 6th team he graded, so he really hadn't seen much of what was out there when he graded us.

In any event, Sickels is just one guy and so obviously there are going to be flaws in his rating. All you can say is that he's objective, fairly knowledgeable, and doing the best he can. So if he thinks player X is a C+ while player Y is a C, he's entitled to that opinion.

[Frobby]

HOU -- 1 B, 4 B-, 5 C+, 10 C -------Top 10: 2.53 Top 20: 2.27

Blech, that is putrid!

The Angels are next and they have a chance of knocking the O's down a peg, I suspect.

[Stotle]

HOU -- 1 B, 4 B-, 5 C+, 10 C -------Top 10: 2.53 Top 20: 2.27

Blech, that is putrid!

The Angels are next and they have a chance of knocking the O's down a peg, I suspect.

I think they are lighter than you'd expect.