Melewski discusses Hernandez and DeLeon

[Sports Guy]

https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2021/08/a-look-at-two-talented-young-shortstops-on-the-farm.html?fbclid=IwAR2gFl5dH3jXvX9ARMrHdlYYnXaRmOXSixSYsNTJHNydTKpj6d4bdkkvyg0

[SteveA]

I know that it's MASN so it's certainly organization-fuelled hype, but it does seem like the players that Elias is getting back in deals are showing more promise than most of the ones Duquette got back.

Even the Cullen kid we got for Tommy Milone has put up a decent slash line in Delmarva and Bowie this year.  

Will be interesting to look back years down the line and compare what we got for:

Machado/Britton/Schoop/Gausman

to what we got for

Givens/Castro/Bleier/Milone/Galvis/Bundy/Cobb

(I have a sneaking feeling I am forgetting someone traded away by one or both GMs but I'm at work so this will be a hasty, non-researched post).

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I know that it's MASN so it's certainly organization-fuelled hype, but it does seem like the players that Elias is getting back in deals are showing more promise than most of the ones Duquette got back.

Even the Cullen kid we got for Tommy Milone has put up a decent slash line in Delmarva and Bowie this year.  

Will be interesting to look back years down the line and compare what we got for:

Machado/Britton/Schoop/Gausman

to what we got for

Givens/Castro/Bleier/Milone/Galvis/Bundy/Cobb

(I have a sneaking feeling I am forgetting someone traded away by one or both GMs but I'm at work so this will be a hasty, non-researched post).

Iglesias

[waynebug]

Elias needed to find kids to fill his short season rosters since Duquette/Angelos left the cupboard bare.

So he got 3 shortstops in summer trades for relievers.

Noelberth Romero from the Red Sox on Orioles Orange.  He also has  6 doubles and 3 homers.  

Victor Gonzalez from the Mets somewhere in the DSL only 18 1st year in pro ball

De Leon from the Marlins on Orioles Black.  

I really wasn't aware of how well De Leon was playing.  Sounds like he is ahead of the other 2 with Maikol Hernandez coming up behind.  

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

So three years later Dan is still to blame for the rosters of the short season ball clubs?

Is that the story we are going with?

[waynebug]

There's a trend there.  Elias likes the taller Latin shortstop that is athletic and can grow into some power

De Leon, Hernandez and Romero are in the 6'3 range.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

57 minutes ago, waynebug said:

There's a trend there.  Elias likes the taller Latin shortstop that is athletic and can grow into some power

De Leon, Hernandez and Romero are in the 6'3 range.

Elias is looking for his next Carlos Correa.

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So three years later Dan is still to blame for the rosters of the short season ball clubs?

Is that the story we are going with?

Not Dan per se, but I’d say realistically the rosters in the FCL (less so the DSL) still reflect the prior reluctance to spend internationally.   

Elias was hired in November 2018, four months after the 2018 J2 class was signed.   He was able to scoop up a few guys who bloomed late, but didn’t get a shot at the first tier guys in that class.   That group populated the 2019 DSL, and due to the fact that there was no 2020 MiL season, they populate much of the FCL this summer.   So yes, any weakness there is really at the prior regime’s doorstep.  

The J2 2019 class should have populated the 2020 DSL, but there was no season, so most of those players are in the DSL now.    The O’s were still catching up because most good players have informal commitments 2 years in advance.  So that is impacting the 2021 DSL teams.   

The J2 2020 class was deferred to January 2021.   The O’s did better this year but were still limited from players who’d committed earlier to other teams.  Those guys are all in the DSL now.   So yes, we are still a little behind in the DSL because the prior regime didn’t have a significant international presence.   

None of this is hindsight.   This was all clearly stated and understood when Elias took over.   He and Perez have been playing catch-up and have done a decent job of it.   

When the next international classes are announced (I guess in January), you won’t hear from me that the prior regime has anything to do with the strength or weakness of that class.   We understood we’d be playing catch-up for this amount of time, but that period is over and our operation should be on equal footing with everyone else now.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Not Dan per se, but I’d say realistically the rosters in the FCL (less so the DSL) still reflect the prior reluctance to spend internationally.   

Elias was hired in November 2018, four months after the 2018 J2 class was signed.   He was able to scoop up a few guys who bloomed late, but didn’t get a shot at the first tier guys in that class.   That group populated the 2019 DSL, and due to the fact that there was no 2020 MiL season, they populate much of the FCL this summer.   So yes, any weakness there is really at the prior regime’s doorstep.  

The J2 2019 class should have populated the 2020 DSL, but there was no season, so most of those players are in the DSL now.    The O’s were still catching up because most good players have informal commitments 2 years in advance.  So that is impacting the 2021 DSL teams.   

The J2 2020 class was deferred to January 2021.   The O’s did better this year but were still limited from players who’d committed earlier to other teams.  Those guys are all in the DSL now.   So yes, we are still a little behind in the DSL because the prior regime didn’t have a significant international presence.   

None of this is hindsight.   This was all clearly stated and understood when Elias took over.   He and Perez have been playing catch-up and have done a decent job of it.   

When the next international classes are announced (I guess in January), you won’t hear from me that the prior regime has anything to do with the strength or weakness of that class.   We understood we’d be playing catch-up for this amount of time, but that period is over and our operation should be on equal footing with everyone else now.

It's been three years.  He's had plenty of time to acquire players, not actual prospects but players, to fill out those rosters.

I see a LOT of folks blaming Dan for everything.  This is kinda ridiculous.  Elias spent a lot of capital his first year here building up the bulk numbers of the International player base.  Year three you should be owing the staffing of your short season clubs.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's been three years.  He's had plenty of time to acquire players, not actual prospects but players, to fill out those rosters.

I see a LOT of folks blaming Dan for everything.  This is kinda ridiculous.  Elias spent a lot of capital his first year here building up the bulk numbers of the International player base.  Year three you should be owing the staffing of your short season clubs.

I’ve explained it.   If you choose not to accept that explanation, that’s up to you. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

I’ve explained it.   If you choose not to accept that explanation, that’s up to you. 

If those teams had to be outfitted with actual prospects I'd agree with you.

Someone with the resources of a ML team can fill out one of those rosters using international free agents and undrafted college players.

Yes we all know the International presence was 30 of 30.  But this is short season rosters. This is year three.  If you are scrambling and making moves to do this there is an issue.  On the lists of difficult tasks for a GM this shouldn't be on page one.

Didn't all of his trades in year one bring back the type of 17 year olds that should, theoretically, be playing on these clubs?

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's been three years.  He's had plenty of time to acquire players, not actual prospects but players, to fill out those rosters.

I see a LOT of folks blaming Dan for everything.  This is kinda ridiculous.  Elias spent a lot of capital his first year here building up the bulk numbers of the International player base.  Year three you should be owing the staffing of your short season clubs.

I don't see many blaming Dan for much of anything these days. A fair observation is that when Elias took over, the minor league system had no real international presence. It is fair to say that the Orioles minor league system was barren with athletic up-the-middle prospects. It is fair to say that the system has changed in those ways dramatically since 2018 when Elias took over. 

Another fair observation is that DD and Rajsich had some solid drafts from 2016-2018 taking players like Austin Hays, Grayson Rodriguez, DL Hall, Mike Baumann and Drew Rom. However, there are not many left in the organization from those drafts. I believe it is reasonable to blame ownership for the lack of international prospects. Dan had always been very active in the international scene in his career as an executive before Baltimore. It was huge in his previous success. 

It is fair to say that the emphasis on development and instruction is very different than the previous regime. It is also fair to say that Dan did not have the resources to fund a playoff team and to build an elite talent pipeline comparable to what Elias has done. It seems that it had to be one or the other under Dan. We'll see what balance Elias can achieve in the years to come.

It is what it is, and the minor league system is leaps and bounds better than it was in the Winter of 2018.

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If those teams had to be outfitted with actual prospects I'd agree with you.

Someone with the resources of a ML team can fill out one of those rosters using international free agents and undrafted college players.

Yes we all know the International presence was 30 of 30.  But this is short season rosters. This is year three.  If you are scrambling and making moves to do this there is an issue.  On the lists of difficult tasks for a GM this shouldn't be on page one.

Didn't all of his trades in year one bring back the type of 17 year olds that should, theoretically, be playing on these clubs?

Maybe I am missing your point.  Who said anything about scrambling to fill rosters?   The O’s have two full teams in the FCL and two full teams in the DSL.  In the FCL, 15 major league organizations are represented, and only three of them fielded two teams, including the Orioles. In the DSL, 14 major league organizations fielded one team, while 16 organizations fielded two teams.   Only five of 30 clubs are fielding two teams in both the DSL and one of the complex leagues.   The O’s are one of those five.  So I’d say they’ve done an excellent job of finding players to populate these teams.   But, the hangover from the prior regime limits the amount of high end talent on them, for now.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Maybe I am missing your point.  Who said anything about scrambling to fill rosters?   The O’s have two full teams in the FCL and two full teams in the DSL.  In the FCL, 15 major league organizations are represented, and only three of them fielded two teams, including the Orioles. In the DSL, 14 major league organizations fielded one team, while 16 organizations fielded two teams.   Only five of 30 clubs are fielding two teams in both the DSL and one of the complex leagues.   The O’s are one of those five.  So I’d say they’ve done an excellent job of finding players to populate these teams.   But, the hangover from the prior regime limits the amount of high end talent on them, for now.

 

 

I suppose scrambling was an overstatement but I was referring to this.

Quote

Elias needed to find kids to fill his short season rosters since Duquette/Angelos left the cupboard bare.

So he got 3 shortstops in summer trades for relievers.

To me the idea that he "Needed to find kids to fill his short season rosters" implies a sense of urgency.

[RZNJ]

The fact is that in the past we might have one or two legitimate prospects in the DSL.  Now, we have a bunch of 17 year olds down there with promise.  Same thing in the FCL.  Anything related to Latin players wasn't Duquette's fault.  It was Peter Angelo's.   Giving credit to Elias shouldn't require knocking Duquette.   Duquette as someone else suggested was all about improving the ML team with little emphasis on the farm system except for the draft.  Again, not really his fault, as it was almost undoubtedly mandated from above.