Taking a two year perspective

[wildcard]

58 minutes ago, fitzi22 said:

Adley in year 1 or 2 will not allow enough time for the other prospects to be up and in their prime.  The hopes and dreams for the franchise on Adley and GRod alone is fools gold.  To compete in the East you need a full young team in their prime which would be 2024 or more likely 2025.

Those two will be the face of the franchise and who Elias builds along but there will be plenty of other talented O's in the majors by 2023.

[Frobby]

50 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And btw, does maximizing opportunities for these guys mean jerking them Around, ala Lowther, last year?  Does it mean sending them down at the first sign of issues?  
 

Obviously 2021 was an odd year for pitchers because of the bs covid shutdown in 2020 but many of those guys still weren’t handled correctly and the idea that we are discussing the idea of giving them opportunities is funny since we just came off a year to do that and yet they didn’t do it for some and blocked others with guys like Harvey and Lopez.  
 

I mean, if you are going to do it, do it right.  Keep them in the rotation for 10-15 starts before you think about making a change.  They aren’t doing that.  

Well, Lowther was an odd case.   If I recall correctly, he started spring training late and didn’t really have an opportunity to make the team, but he was sort of in a “first man up” position during that weird period where the major leaguers were playing but the minor league season hadn’t started yet.   So he ended up in this odd in-between position that carried into the season, then he was hurt for a while, etc.   It definitely didn’t help his development but I don’t think the Orioles set out to put him in that position.   

Then you have Akin who was expected to be in the rotation but crapped the bed badly in spring training.   He didn’t make the team, finally rejoined on May 12 pitching in relief and ultimately was installed in the rotation on May 30.   He had some injuries in July and got pushed to the bullpen and missed a few weeks, but made 9 straight starts to close the season and showed some improvement in the final month.   

Kremer it’s fair to say wasn’t jerked around at all.   He made 12 straight starts to begin the season and was terrible.   He really struggled at Norfolk, too.    Just a lost year for him but he did a little better in AAA towards the end.  

Finally you have Alex Wells, who missed spring training with an oblique injury, pitched well at AAA for 6 weeks when the season began, bounced between the majors and AAA a bit from late June through August, then stayed in the O’s rotation throughout September.   

I think all four of these guys, plus Baumann and Bradish, will get a chance to make the team out of spring training.   There’s the perpetual question of whether those who don’t make the rotation should be put in the major league bullpen or into the AAA rotation.   It should be an interesting competition.   All but Bradish have made their major league debuts and hopefully will have learned something from the experience.   Hopefully they’ll have spent the winter working on the deficiencies in their game and focusing on what they need to do to improve.  If history is a guide, some of them will show improvement and some won’t.   Hopefully the O’s coaching staff will be able to discern who’s in which group.  But I think they’ll all get their shots over the long season.  

[Moose Milligan]

12 hours ago, wildcard said:

If posters want to talk sensibly  then I am fine with that.  I will post my thoughts.  Agree or disagree.  But I am not going to argue about it.

Your 1st paragraph sounds like you want to indict the son for the father's sins.  I give John a clean slate.

Elias has been clear.  He is focused on adding talent to help the team get to the playoffs.   IMO he is not going to spend much on anything that does not do that.  We shouldn't expect it IMO.

 

 

I've got no choice but to indict the son for the father's sins.  It's not inconceivable that the father and the son both have similar thoughts on how to operate an ML franchise.  While John seems to have differed on things such as signing in the south American markets and being forward thinking in general, the father and son don't seem to like to spend money on the ML product. 

Elias has been clear, yes, he's focused on adding talent to help get the team to the playoffs but to pretend that you can only do that through your drafting/international signing/developing efforts is silly.  

Look, it's very obvious to me...if you're a 50 win team, a 60 win team, a 70 win team...even an 80 or 90 win team, you should always be looking for ways to to get better no matter how you do it.  Even if it's small increments, you do it.  If you're a 50 win team and there's a free agent out there in the 4/50 range that will plug a hole for you, get the player.  Why wouldn't you?

In other words, if you're not constantly trying to get better, what the **** are you waiting for?  Billy Beane had a great line, I can't find it...essentially he said if you're not in playoff contention, you're reloading and retooling and figuring out how to get there.  Anything in the middle is a waste of time.

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I've got no choice but to indict the son for the father's sins.  It's not inconceivable that the father and the son both have similar thoughts on how to operate an ML franchise.  While John seems to have differed on things such as signing in the south American markets and being forward thinking in general, the father and son don't seem to like to spend money on the ML product. 

Elias has been clear, yes, he's focused on adding talent to help get the team to the playoffs but to pretend that you can only do that through your drafting/international signing/developing efforts is silly.  

Look, it's very obvious to me...if you're a 50 win team, a 60 win team, a 70 win team...even an 80 or 90 win team, you should always be looking for ways to to get better no matter how you do it.  Even if it's small increments, you do it.  If you're a 50 win team and there's a free agent out there in the 4/50 range that will plug a hole for you, get the player.  Why wouldn't you?

In other words, if you're not constantly trying to get better, what the **** are you waiting for?  Billy Beane had a great line, I can't find it...essentially he said if you're not in playoff contention, you're reloading and retooling and figuring out how to get there.  Anything in the middle is a waste of time.

Yea that’s a great quote.  It was my tag line on this site for years.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I've got no choice but to indict the son for the father's sins.  It's not inconceivable that the father and the son both have similar thoughts on how to operate an ML franchise.  While John seems to have differed on things such as signing in the south American markets and being forward thinking in general, the father and son don't seem to like to spend money on the ML product. 

Elias has been clear, yes, he's focused on adding talent to help get the team to the playoffs but to pretend that you can only do that through your drafting/international signing/developing efforts is silly.  

Look, it's very obvious to me...if you're a 50 win team, a 60 win team, a 70 win team...even an 80 or 90 win team, you should always be looking for ways to to get better no matter how you do it.  Even if it's small increments, you do it.  If you're a 50 win team and there's a free agent out there in the 4/50 range that will plug a hole for you, get the player.  Why wouldn't you?

In other words, if you're not constantly trying to get better, what the **** are you waiting for?  Billy Beane had a great line, I can't find it...essentially he said if you're not in playoff contention, you're reloading and retooling and figuring out how to get there.  Anything in the middle is a waste of time.

Name a 4/50 FA that the O's could sign that:

1) Would not block a prospect

2) Would come to the O's as the last place team in the AL East who's home park is hitter friendly Camden Yard.

3) Is not likely to decrease in performance because of age over the 4 years.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Name a 4/50 FA that the O's could sign that:

1) Would not block a prospect

2) Would come to the O's as the last place team in the AL East who's home park is hitter friendly Camden Yard.

3) Is not likely to decrease in performance because of age over the 4 years.

Look up the definition of hypothetical when you get a chance. 

Thanks.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Look up the definition of hypothetical when you get a chance. 

Thanks.

I'm curious what free agent isn't likely to decease in performance because of age over the next four years.

That's all of them, every year.

[UMDTerrapins]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm curious what free agent isn't likely to decease in performance because of age over the next four years.

That's all of them, every year.

[wildcard]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Look up the definition of hypothetical when you get a chance. 

Thanks.

Didn't you just tell me you were realistic?

Hyothetical is easy to talk about.  Naming actual FAs gets a lot harder.

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Didn't you just tell me you were realistic?

Hyothetical is easy to talk about.  Naming actual FAs gets a lot harder.

You want names? Fine.

Ed-Rod and Matz.  Two very realistic guys we could have between the average yearly salary ranges of 11 and 15 million a year.  DeSclafani just signed for 3/36, 12 million a year.  Kluber just went to Tampa for a 1 year, 8 million deal, you mean to tell me we couldn't have given him a 2/16 million deal?   We couldn't have given DeSclafani an extra 1.5 per year?  

We could have had any of those guys for the deals they signed for and we weren't even rumored to be remotely close to any of them.  Those are all guys that could have made us better and those are all contracts that we could easily have afforded...even if you wanted to pay a little more because of the whole "well, we've gotta pay extra to get guys to Baltimore" trope, we could have done it.  

There, wildcard.  Those are all deals we could have easily done, all deals that practically any team could have signed those guys for.  

[Too Tall]

Wildcard - I salute you. You have an enviable amount of "try" (and patience) as my kids say. I applaud your "sunnyness" and like to follow what you put forward. Thanks for putting out your thoughts for others to consider. 

I've followed this team since 1954. Lot of players, owners, ups and downs. Like you, I want to think we are currently on the right path and led by the right person(s). I am also not willing to judge the sons by the father's tract record any more than I want my son judged by the record I leave. I can't imagine following this team with just a constant stream of negative thoughts.  Thanks for the balance you provide! 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Name a 4/50 FA that the O's could sign that:

1) Would not block a prospect

2) Would come to the O's as the last place team in the AL East who's home park is hitter friendly Camden Yard.

3) Is not likely to decrease in performance because of age over the 4 years.

A starting pitcher.

 

[Explosivo]

1 hour ago, Too Tall said:

Wildcard - I salute you. You have an enviable amount of "try" (and patience) as my kids say. I applaud your "sunnyness" and like to follow what you put forward. Thanks for putting out your thoughts for others to consider. 

I've followed this team since 1954. Lot of players, owners, ups and downs. Like you, I want to think we are currently on the right path and led by the right person(s). I am also not willing to judge the sons by the father's tract record any more than I want my son judged by the record I leave. I can't imagine following this team with just a constant stream of negative thoughts.  Thanks for the balance you provide! 

 

 

And yet the majority of this community is exactly that, a constant stream of negative thoughts. It makes me wonder what their day to day life is like. Sad stuff overall.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Explosivo said:

And yet the majority of this community is exactly that, a constant stream of negative thoughts. It makes me wonder what their day to day life is like. Sad stuff overall.

I also enjoy judging others I don't really know by their posts on the internet.

Oh wait, I don't.

Sounds like a miserable way to spend a day.

[Explosivo]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I also enjoy judging others I don't really know by their posts on the internet.

Oh wait, I don't.

Sounds like a miserable way to spend a day.

The posts from the save 5 or so folk are loud and announce their character quite clearly. Elias’ plan has been discussed before, their opinions to it have not changed. So what we have here are two hills to die on, one is mired in pessimism. Frankly, it’s just a choice. Being as none of us control the fate of the Orioles, you can either choose to see the plan and understand it or you can continue to fight the waves in disappointment. I see no difference between this and any problem that one may encounter. Also, invest in HMBL.