New Fielding Stat

[BRobinsonfan]

Old#5Fan!

Here are some places where sports writers are using the phrase "hall of fame" season/career to describe the performance of players who clearly have never been elected to the hall of fame. I know you'll want to e-mail them and tell them the error of their ways... also... don't forget to tell them how long you've been watching sports... I'm sure they'll quit doing it once they know you've got 40+ years of experience watching games.

"Peyton Manning, Colts— At age 30 and halfway into what he hopes will be an 18-year career, Manning seems poised to win multiple Super Bowl rings. His first championship provides a new foundation to a certain Hall of Fame career, now that he's finally erased those galling questions about his ability to win the big game."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-02-21-sw-all-pro-team_x.htm

"St. Louis Cardinals – Albert Pujols, First Base - Despite an uncharacteristically rough (for him) start to the season, Pujols turned in another Hall of Fame caliber season and almost single handedly kept the Cardinals in playoff contention into September." http://baseballevolution.com/asher/nlmvp2007.html

"One of the greatest rookie years ever, then he alternated "pretty good" and "average" seasons until age 27, when he had another MVP/Hall of Fame-caliber season, then for an 8-year stretch, he hit between 21 and 25 HRs every single season, with BAs ranging mostly in the .265-.295 range."

http://www.sportsjournalists.com

"That aside, Hoffman has been lights out for the Padres. Putting it all into perspective, since Bruce Bochy became manager in 1995, Hoffman has saved 374 of his 790 wins. Those are certainly Hall of Fame numbers.

Obviously, I'm going to be biased, but without question he should be in," Bochy said. "Not just because of the number of saves, but because of his consistency, his percentage and his durability. He's a definite Hall of Famer to me." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050427&content_id=1029860&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

"Congratulations to Greg Maddux on an absolutely incredible, Hall of Fame caliber career." http://www.faniq.com/blog/Greg-Maddux-Retires-As-One-Of-The-Greatest-Pitchers-Of-All-Time-Blog-15585http://

"Warner spent most of the second half picking himself off the ground as the Giants dialed up the pressure. But then, Warner, who went undrafted out of Northern Iowa, has fashioned a Hall of Fame-caliber career out of rising when he appears down and out." www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/sports/football/24giants.html?em

"Hines Ward has turned a seemingly endless series of slights – real or imagined – into a Hall-of-Fame-caliber career. The Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver has always found a way to turn a criticism into an accomplishment, and he did it again on Sunday in his team’s 11-10 win over San Diego." http://www.tribune-democrat.com/sports/local_story_322235925.html

"Jason Hanson remains and, if anything, he is better now than he was then. With all due respect to Hanson and the Hall of Fame-caliber numbers he has garnered, his 53-yard field goal Thursday was a small, small consolation prize. If there is anybody in the Lions' locker room who understands that, it's Hanson himself." http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2008/11/28/sports/srv0000004155476.txt

"I kid about Hitchcock. He won a ton of games, and the Stanley Cup, with his suffocating defensive schemes. So did Jacques Lemaire and Scotty Bowman, just to mention two other Hall of Fame-caliber coaches." http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/11/27/arace27.ART_ART_11-27-08_C1_KDC286K.html?sid=101

There appear to be thousands and thousands of other examples... but I gotta get back to work. When I get a break I might do references to "MVP Caliber" season/performace for you.

Got get 'em OldFan!

[Pedro Cerrano]

Old#5Fan!

Here are some places where sports writers are using the phrase "hall of fame" season/career to describe the performance of players who clearly have never been elected to the hall of fame. I know you'll want to e-mail them and tell them the error of their ways... also... don't forget to tell them how long you've been watching sports... I'm sure they'll quit doing it once they know you've got 40+ years of experience watching games.

"Peyton Manning, Colts— At age 30 and halfway into what he hopes will be an 18-year career, Manning seems poised to win multiple Super Bowl rings. His first championship provides a new foundation to a certain Hall of Fame career, now that he's finally erased those galling questions about his ability to win the big game."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-02-21-sw-all-pro-team_x.htm

"St. Louis Cardinals – Albert Pujols, First Base - Despite an uncharacteristically rough (for him) start to the season, Pujols turned in another Hall of Fame caliber season and almost single handedly kept the Cardinals in playoff contention into September." http://baseballevolution.com/asher/nlmvp2007.html

"One of the greatest rookie years ever, then he alternated "pretty good" and "average" seasons until age 27, when he had another MVP/Hall of Fame-caliber season, then for an 8-year stretch, he hit between 21 and 25 HRs every single season, with BAs ranging mostly in the .265-.295 range."

http://www.sportsjournalists.com

"That aside, Hoffman has been lights out for the Padres. Putting it all into perspective, since Bruce Bochy became manager in 1995, Hoffman has saved 374 of his 790 wins. Those are certainly Hall of Fame numbers.

Obviously, I'm going to be biased, but without question he should be in," Bochy said. "Not just because of the number of saves, but because of his consistency, his percentage and his durability. He's a definite Hall of Famer to me." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050427&content_id=1029860&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

"Congratulations to Greg Maddux on an absolutely incredible, Hall of Fame caliber career." http://www.faniq.com/blog/Greg-Maddux-Retires-As-One-Of-The-Greatest-Pitchers-Of-All-Time-Blog-15585http://

"Warner spent most of the second half picking himself off the ground as the Giants dialed up the pressure. But then, Warner, who went undrafted out of Northern Iowa, has fashioned a Hall of Fame-caliber career out of rising when he appears down and out." www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/sports/football/24giants.html?em

"Hines Ward has turned a seemingly endless series of slights – real or imagined – into a Hall-of-Fame-caliber career. The Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver has always found a way to turn a criticism into an accomplishment, and he did it again on Sunday in his team’s 11-10 win over San Diego." http://www.tribune-democrat.com/sports/local_story_322235925.html

"Jason Hanson remains and, if anything, he is better now than he was then. With all due respect to Hanson and the Hall of Fame-caliber numbers he has garnered, his 53-yard field goal Thursday was a small, small consolation prize. If there is anybody in the Lions' locker room who understands that, it's Hanson himself." http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2008/11/28/sports/srv0000004155476.txt

"I kid about Hitchcock. He won a ton of games, and the Stanley Cup, with his suffocating defensive schemes. So did Jacques Lemaire and Scotty Bowman, just to mention two other Hall of Fame-caliber coaches." http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/11/27/arace27.ART_ART_11-27-08_C1_KDC286K.html?sid=101

There appear to be thousands and thousands of other examples... but I gotta get back to work. When I get a break I might do references to "MVP Caliber" season/performace for you.

Got get 'em OldFan!

Trust me, it's not worth it.

[Old#5fan]

Old#5Fan!

Here are some places where sports writers are using the phrase "hall of fame" season/career to describe the performance of players who clearly have never been elected to the hall of fame. I know you'll want to e-mail them and tell them the error of their ways... also... don't forget to tell them how long you've been watching sports... I'm sure they'll quit doing it once they know you've got 40+ years of experience watching games.

"Peyton Manning, Colts— At age 30 and halfway into what he hopes will be an 18-year career, Manning seems poised to win multiple Super Bowl rings. His first championship provides a new foundation to a certain Hall of Fame career, now that he's finally erased those galling questions about his ability to win the big game."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-02-21-sw-all-pro-team_x.htm

"St. Louis Cardinals – Albert Pujols, First Base - Despite an uncharacteristically rough (for him) start to the season, Pujols turned in another Hall of Fame caliber season and almost single handedly kept the Cardinals in playoff contention into September." http://baseballevolution.com/asher/nlmvp2007.html

"One of the greatest rookie years ever, then he alternated "pretty good" and "average" seasons until age 27, when he had another MVP/Hall of Fame-caliber season, then for an 8-year stretch, he hit between 21 and 25 HRs every single season, with BAs ranging mostly in the .265-.295 range."

http://www.sportsjournalists.com

"That aside, Hoffman has been lights out for the Padres. Putting it all into perspective, since Bruce Bochy became manager in 1995, Hoffman has saved 374 of his 790 wins. Those are certainly Hall of Fame numbers.

Obviously, I'm going to be biased, but without question he should be in," Bochy said. "Not just because of the number of saves, but because of his consistency, his percentage and his durability. He's a definite Hall of Famer to me." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050427&content_id=1029860&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

"Congratulations to Greg Maddux on an absolutely incredible, Hall of Fame caliber career." http://www.faniq.com/blog/Greg-Maddux-Retires-As-One-Of-The-Greatest-Pitchers-Of-All-Time-Blog-15585http://

"Warner spent most of the second half picking himself off the ground as the Giants dialed up the pressure. But then, Warner, who went undrafted out of Northern Iowa, has fashioned a Hall of Fame-caliber career out of rising when he appears down and out." www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/sports/football/24giants.html?em

"Hines Ward has turned a seemingly endless series of slights – real or imagined – into a Hall-of-Fame-caliber career. The Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver has always found a way to turn a criticism into an accomplishment, and he did it again on Sunday in his team’s 11-10 win over San Diego." http://www.tribune-democrat.com/sports/local_story_322235925.html

"Jason Hanson remains and, if anything, he is better now than he was then. With all due respect to Hanson and the Hall of Fame-caliber numbers he has garnered, his 53-yard field goal Thursday was a small, small consolation prize. If there is anybody in the Lions' locker room who understands that, it's Hanson himself." http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2008/11/28/sports/srv0000004155476.txt

"I kid about Hitchcock. He won a ton of games, and the Stanley Cup, with his suffocating defensive schemes. So did Jacques Lemaire and Scotty Bowman, just to mention two other Hall of Fame-caliber coaches." http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/11/27/arace27.ART_ART_11-27-08_C1_KDC286K.html?sid=101

There appear to be thousands and thousands of other examples... but I gotta get back to work. When I get a break I might do references to "MVP Caliber" season/performace for you.

Got get 'em OldFan!

How does this involve the present discussion regarding fielding and the non-award of the Gold Glove to Nick Markakis?:scratchchinhmm: That is what we were discussing.:rolleyestf: Talk about going off on a tangent! Or is it the deep end?

[BaltimoreTerp]

How does this involve the discussion regarding fielding and the non-award of the Gold Glove to Nick Markakis?:scratchchinhmm: That is what we were discussing.:rolleyestf: Talk about going off on a tangent!

Man, he's not even going bother reading posts now. Good to know.

[ChaosLex]

Old#5Fan!

Here are some places where sports writers are using the phrase "hall of fame" season/career to describe the performance of players who clearly have never been elected to the hall of fame. I know you'll want to e-mail them and tell them the error of their ways... also... don't forget to tell them how long you've been watching sports... I'm sure they'll quit doing it once they know you've got 40+ years of experience watching games.

"Peyton Manning, Colts— At age 30 and halfway into what he hopes will be an 18-year career, Manning seems poised to win multiple Super Bowl rings. His first championship provides a new foundation to a certain Hall of Fame career, now that he's finally erased those galling questions about his ability to win the big game."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-02-21-sw-all-pro-team_x.htm

"St. Louis Cardinals – Albert Pujols, First Base - Despite an uncharacteristically rough (for him) start to the season, Pujols turned in another Hall of Fame caliber season and almost single handedly kept the Cardinals in playoff contention into September." http://baseballevolution.com/asher/nlmvp2007.html

"One of the greatest rookie years ever, then he alternated "pretty good" and "average" seasons until age 27, when he had another MVP/Hall of Fame-caliber season, then for an 8-year stretch, he hit between 21 and 25 HRs every single season, with BAs ranging mostly in the .265-.295 range."

http://www.sportsjournalists.com

"That aside, Hoffman has been lights out for the Padres. Putting it all into perspective, since Bruce Bochy became manager in 1995, Hoffman has saved 374 of his 790 wins. Those are certainly Hall of Fame numbers.

Obviously, I'm going to be biased, but without question he should be in," Bochy said. "Not just because of the number of saves, but because of his consistency, his percentage and his durability. He's a definite Hall of Famer to me." http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050427&content_id=1029860&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

"Congratulations to Greg Maddux on an absolutely incredible, Hall of Fame caliber career." http://www.faniq.com/blog/Greg-Maddux-Retires-As-One-Of-The-Greatest-Pitchers-Of-All-Time-Blog-15585http://

"Warner spent most of the second half picking himself off the ground as the Giants dialed up the pressure. But then, Warner, who went undrafted out of Northern Iowa, has fashioned a Hall of Fame-caliber career out of rising when he appears down and out." www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/sports/football/24giants.html?em

"Hines Ward has turned a seemingly endless series of slights – real or imagined – into a Hall-of-Fame-caliber career. The Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver has always found a way to turn a criticism into an accomplishment, and he did it again on Sunday in his team’s 11-10 win over San Diego." http://www.tribune-democrat.com/sports/local_story_322235925.html

"Jason Hanson remains and, if anything, he is better now than he was then. With all due respect to Hanson and the Hall of Fame-caliber numbers he has garnered, his 53-yard field goal Thursday was a small, small consolation prize. If there is anybody in the Lions' locker room who understands that, it's Hanson himself." http://www.themorningsun.com/articles/2008/11/28/sports/srv0000004155476.txt

"I kid about Hitchcock. He won a ton of games, and the Stanley Cup, with his suffocating defensive schemes. So did Jacques Lemaire and Scotty Bowman, just to mention two other Hall of Fame-caliber coaches." http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/11/27/arace27.ART_ART_11-27-08_C1_KDC286K.html?sid=101

There appear to be thousands and thousands of other examples... but I gotta get back to work. When I get a break I might do references to "MVP Caliber" season/performace for you.

Got get 'em OldFan!

[Old#5fan]

Man, he's not even going bother reading posts now. Good to know.

Hall of Fame election is a lifetime achievement award not a singular annual award like the Gold Glove. Thus HOF selection is easier to project or predict although I must disagree that Kurt Warner is a lock for the HOF as just because someone writes it in a sports column doesn't make it gospel. Manning and Puljois I think are safe bets as is Maddox. This is merely speculation. Nothing all that wrong about that. Although it could come back in the end to be wrong.

However, posters were proclaiming as if it was a fact that Markakis was Gold Glove caliber yet he didn't garner the award. That is a known outcome.We don't know if any of these players will not get voted into the HOF so it is truly unknown. With Markakis we know he didn't get the award. There is a big difference. This should be easily understood by an elementary school student.

[DrungoHazewood]

Oh, so if I wrote a book about all my recollections of seemingly impossible plays made right before my eyes by Brooks Robinsion for example, that would validate what I know I saw? I don't need to convince anyone of what I saw. I know what I saw. People not around should respect that, especially if it doesn't drastically conflict with what is generally known.

I will give you another example, I don't know if you follow football but the 1958 championship (Greatest NFL Game Ever) is about to be replayed in HD and I have been dreaming about this for ever. I was three years old when that game was played and don't remember it. However I have several books about the game, have read numerous books by the various players in the game (17 HOF players/coaches) and pretty much know all the plays.

However, I have never seen most of the plays before. As such, I have always felt I never got the true essence I needed to experience of that game. Now, I will get the opportunity and you cannot imagine the thrill I have. Nevertheless, this is still not the same thrill (not even close) to the experience of someone who watched the game as it was played, like my Dad, my uncles and one of my older cousins. I have always envied them for being around to see that game.

If you don't understand this, there is no point in explaining it further (or trying to).

That was an awful lot of typing to say "Nah nah nah, I'm not going to give you a single fact! Listen to me, whippersnappers! I'm right because I say I'm right!!! And get off my lawn!!"

I really have to hand it to whoever is behind this alias. You've kept up this façade for at least 18 months. A weaker man (or woman) would have busted out laughing and given up the joke long ago.

[BRobinsonfan]

Hall of Fame election is a lifetime achievement award not a singular annual award like the Gold Glove. Thus HOF selection is easier to project or predict...

OldFan... you told us that we can't describe Nick Markakis' fielding as "gold glove-caliber" because he hasn't won a gold glove. While we all know he hasn't actually won a Gold Glove award, some choose to describe his fielding prowess as "gold glove-caliber" because... well... that's what sports writers and casual fans do all the time.

While fans may disagree whether or not Nick Markakis is an excellent fielder... or if Derek Jeter is an MVP... or whether Burt Blyleven belongs in the Hall of Fame... it's pefectly accepted practice... or common parlance if you will, for sportswriters and others to refer to "gold-glove caliber" players and "MVP-caliber" years... when describing a particular player's performance.

To wit:

"This is a premium MVP-caliber player," [Describing Matt Holliday]General Manager Billy Beane said. " (Offense) has been a major problem for us the last couple of years. To (address it) this early in the winter, there's a certain amount of comfort in that." http://www.marinij.com/athletics/ci_10970013

Coming off an MVP-caliber season, the well-traveled, oft-maligned yet much-admired Gary Sheffield takes his cuts at Pedro, Barry and Ichiro. http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1106673/index.htm

"True, Dye is only two year’s removed from an MVP-caliber season in which he posted career highs in OBP (385), OPS (1.006), slugging percentage (.622) and wOBA (.412). He also put to rest any concerns from his disdismal ’07 campaign (.338 wOBA), posting a .371 clip. http://rays.scout.com/2/815633.html

"After a rocky April, it eventually saw the successful return of Francisco Liriano; other highlights included another MVP-caliber year from Joe Mauer, and the emergence of some of their young arms, most notably Kevin Slowey."

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/11/14/footprints-in-the-snow-minnesota-twins/

With only 37 years of baseball watching experience I won't be able to understand your point... and I know you'll pretend not to understand mine... but since this is not a pulitzer prize caliber thread anyway... it doesn't hurt to try.

[BRobinsonfan]

Here's Ryan Zimmerman being described as a "gold glove caliber" thirdbaseman by Bill Ladson at MLB.com

Zimmerman is clearly the best player on Washington's current roster. He is a Gold Glove-caliber third baseman and has proven he can drive in runs. He had over 90 RBIs during his first two full seasons in the big leagues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081205&content_id=3704206&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

You would think Mr. Ladson would know that Zimmerman has never won the Gold-Glove award wouldn't you?

Amalie Benjamin, with the Boston Globe makes the same horrible mistake in writing about Coco Crisp... another player erroneously being described by a sportswriter as "goldglove-caliber"

"He started just 100 games in 2006 and 98 in 2008, with his most productive season squeezed in between, when he turned into a Gold Glove-caliber center fielder. Crisp hit .297 in 2004 and .300 in 2005 with Cleveland, then never hit better than .283 with the Sox. His power also eroded - from 15 homers in his final season with the Indians to just 21 in three seasons in Boston." http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/11/20/sox_crisply_shore_up_pen/

There are other examples of sports writers using "gold-glove caliber" to describe a player who hasn't actually won the award... but whether its two examples or 200 you'll pretend not to get the point... 'cause that's the whole point, right?

[Old#5fan]

Here's Ryan Zimmerman being described as a "gold glove caliber" thirdbaseman by Bill Ladson at MLB.com

Zimmerman is clearly the best player on Washington's current roster. He is a Gold Glove-caliber third baseman and has proven he can drive in runs. He had over 90 RBIs during his first two full seasons in the big leagues.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081205&content_id=3704206&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

You would think Mr. Ladson would know that Zimmerman has never won the Gold-Glove award wouldn't you?

Amalie Benjamin, with the Boston Globe makes the same horrible mistake in writing about Coco Crisp... another player erroneously being described by a sportswriter as "goldglove-caliber"

"He started just 100 games in 2006 and 98 in 2008, with his most productive season squeezed in between, when he turned into a Gold Glove-caliber center fielder. Crisp hit .297 in 2004 and .300 in 2005 with Cleveland, then never hit better than .283 with the Sox. His power also eroded - from 15 homers in his final season with the Indians to just 21 in three seasons in Boston." http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/11/20/sox_crisply_shore_up_pen/

There are other examples of sports writers using "gold-glove caliber" to describe a player who hasn't actually won the award... but whether its two examples or 200 you'll pretend not to get the point... 'cause that's the whole point, right?

It is a mistake. You act like sports writers never make mistakes. I have seen some truly amazingly bonehead mistakes made by sportswriters, probably in a hurry to meet a deadline as I am sure you have. I would personally take issue with both of these so-called professional writers doing this. They ought to know better. Just because a number of alleged professional types do something it doesn't make it correct. :rolleyestf:If the majority of the American's use "ain't" in normal conversation does that make it correct? Jeese!

[The Wedge]

Oh. My. God.

[The Wedge]

Seriously...seriously? Instead of saying that you might possibly be wrong you're going to say that EVERY instance of a sportswriter using GG caliber or WS caliber or anything caliber is a MISTAKE?

That's one huge basket of mistakes. Good laws.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It is a mistake. You act like sports writers never make mistakes. I have seen some truly amazingly bonehead mistakes made by sportswriters, probably in a hurry to meet a deadline as I am sure you have. I would personally take issue with both of these so-called professional writers doing this. They ought to know better. Just because a number of alleged professional types do something it doesn't make it correct. :rolleyestf:If the majority of the American's use "ain't" in normal conversation does that make it correct? Jeese!

"Ain't" is in the dictionary...

[The Wedge]

"Ain't" is in the dictionary...

Indeed. It was formerly correct, then became incorrect (for basically being a contraction of archaic words), but common usage always trumps tradition when it comes to the language, and it was used enough regularly to warrant inclusion in the lexicon, and it was reinserted in to the dictionary again. Common misconception. A better example would be the regardless/irregardless conundrum.

[Old#5fan]

Indeed. It was formerly correct, then became incorrect (for basically being a contraction of archaic words), but common usage always trumps tradition when it comes to the language, and it was used enough regularly to warrant inclusion in the lexicon, and it was reinserted in to the dictionary again. Common misconception. A better example would be the regardless/irregardless conundrum.

Okay, I will go with that!:laughlol::clap3: