New Fielding Stat

[Old#5fan]

Do you even get that often times the GG is awarded to an undeserving candidate?

Do you believe Derek Jeter to be one of the best defensive SS in the AL because he has won the GG?

I have no problem with Jeter getting it. I have seen him make some fantastic plays that recent Orioles shortstops could only imagine in their dreams. Just because you don't like the selections doesn't mean the award is not valid. Just respect the fact that the majority of Gold Glove Award winners were most deserving. Of course if you wish to focus in on questionable winners you can but it doesn't invalidate the majority who were most deserving. Every Oriole I named was most deserving. Nobody would ever question that. If Markakis was deserving he would get it. Just because you favor Oriole players doesn't mean they should get preference either.

[The Wedge]

I have no problem with Jeter getting it. I have seen him make some fantastic plays that recent Orioles shortstops could only imagine in their dreams. Just because you don't like the selections doesn't mean the award is not valid. Just respect the fact that the majority of Gold Glove Award winners were most deserving. Of course if you wish to focus in on questionable winners you can but it doesn't invalidate the majority who were most deserving. Every Oriole I named was most deserving. Nobody would ever question that. If Markakis was deserving he would get it. Just because you favor Oriole players doesn't mean they should get preference either.

I hereby submit this entire post as "you don't get it, you never did get it, you never will get it, goodbye."

[Old#5fan]

Separate yourself from the conversation.

You don't need to actually WIN something to MERIT something. Get it? Two of the definitions of caliber are the degree of capacity or competence/ability or

the degree of merit or excellence/quality. DEGREE OF.

Not everyone that shows the degree of can get the awards in baseball. Especially in the outfield. That's why one says CALIBER! You use caliber as a qualification. It's an acknowledgment that the person hasn't won the award, and the declaration that, to them, they should have, because to them, they've demonstrated the degree of merit/competence. You'd think that a person like yourself who is so incredibly hung up over what they see over what is on paper would understand this damn concept, especially since it's not exactly exclusive to baseball. Like our own Greg Pappas. His novel is publishing caliber.

Don't ever tell someone who has a degree in English that they don't understand what a word means, for god's sake. Go rest your case in an unmarked grave where it belongs.

I don't care if you invented the English language you seem short of common sense when it comes to baseball awards. Since you apparently chose to ignore this on my prior post answer this question:

Mistakenly proclaiming Markakis as Gold Glove caliber is disrespectful to those Orioles that truly were Gold Glove Caliber. If Markakis is of their caliber and never wins the award, what does that make them?::scratchchinhmm:

[DrungoHazewood]

I have no problem with Jeter getting it. I have seen him make some fantastic plays that recent Orioles shortstops could only imagine in their dreams. Just because you don't like the selections doesn't mean the award is not valid. Just respect the fact that the majority of Gold Glove Award winners were most deserving. Of course if you wish to focus in on questionable winners you can but it doesn't invalidate the majority who were most deserving. Every Oriole I named was most deserving. Nobody would ever question that. If Markakis was deserving he would get it. Just because you favor Oriole players doesn't mean they should get preference either.

It's easier to place your trust in a system that you don't understand. The most Byzantine bureaucracies can seem simple and well-designed when your depth of knowledge and level of skepticism stops at "award = good".

[Greg Pappas]

Jesus tap dancing Christ, how much are you going to harp on that, and how much are you going to ignore what everyone says about the topic and ignore the CALIBER part?

Inappropriate.

[Greg Pappas]

Guys, as many of you know, the debate with Old#5fan is impossible. Just ignore it. I'm not taking sides, but making an observation based on witnessing numerous wasted posts.

[The Wedge]

Inappropriate.

Sorry, Greg. It's an expression I use all the time, and forget that some people wouldn't like it.

[The Wedge]

I don't care if you invented the English language you seem short of common sense when it comes to baseball awards. Since you apparently chose to ignore this on my prior post answer this question:

Mistakenly proclaiming Markakis as Gold Glove caliber is disrespectful to those Orioles that truly were Gold Glove Caliber. If Markakis is of their caliber and never wins the award, what does that make them?::scratchchinhmm:

Markakis not winning it disrespects the award more than him winning it. And in fact, there are about a hundred people with GG's on their mantle that disprespect the players you listed by owning one. Poor argument.

And please don't insult my common sense when you can't grasp the concept of caliber.

[Old#5fan]

It's easier to place your trust in a system that you don't understand. The most Byzantine bureaucracies can seem simple and well-designed when your depth of knowledge and level of skepticism stops at "award = good".

Maybe I just have a more mature approach in not wishing to discard the Gold Glove Award merely because in a handful of instances over many years some questionable candidates received the award.

I take it that if you had your way you would invalidate all Gold Glove Awards because a couple of people may not have been the most optimum choice to get it in a particular year.

Ergo, you would deprive the Brooks Robinsons, Cal Ripkens, Paul Blairs, and Mark Belangers their well deserved awards based on sour grapes over Derek Jeter getting his?

If so this makes no sense at all.

[Lucky Jim]

Sorry, Greg. It's an expression I use all the time, and forget that some people wouldn't like it.

Apparently, Greg doesn't think Jesus Christ could tap dance. Now that's offensive.

Seriously, I understand completely Wedge - I said "uh-oh" to myself when I saw it, but completely understood how one could come to sue the term.

The bigger crime is feeding this fire again, however. Walk away. Just walk away.

[DrungoHazewood]

Mistakenly proclaiming Markakis as Gold Glove caliber is disrespectful to those Orioles that truly were Gold Glove Caliber. If Markakis is of their caliber and never wins the award, what does that make them?::scratchchinhmm:

He'd be the victim of a system known as an "unconstrained plurality." The GG voting has almost no rules for eligibility and no guidlines for reducing the number of potential candidates. So the voters can literally vote on anyone (and from looking at the NL ROY voting they often do - several voted for a player who wasn't even a rookie.)

A system like that is much like an early primary vote in the presidental race, just with many more candidates. You'll often get a winner in New Hampshire with, like, 17% of the vote. That's what the GG voting is. When there's no clearly superior candidate the winner(s) often get a tiny percentage of the overall vote. It's likely that every year will produce winners who get 15% or 25% of the vote, meaning that 75% or more of the voters didn't think the eventual winner should have won.

When you have a poorly designed (or not designed at all) system you regularly get screwy results. That's not Nick Markakis' fault.

[DrungoHazewood]

Maybe I just have a more mature approach in not wishing to discard the Gold Glove Award merely because in a handful of instances over many years some questionable candidates received the award.

I take it that if you had your way you would invalidate all Gold Glove Awards because a couple of people may not have been the most optimum choice to get it in a particular year.

Ergo, you would deprive the Brooks Robinsons, Cal Ripkens, Paul Blairs, and Mark Belangers their well deserved awards based on sour grapes over Derek Jeter getting his?

If so this makes no sense at all.

No, a system should get the obvious cases right. Belanger and Blair and Brooks were obvious cases (although I take issue with anyone who says Brooks was the best defensive 3B in the league every year for 16 years). A system doesn't get extra credit because it gets the obvious stuff right. The test of a system is when it's stressed. When the GG's are stressed it spits out a Nate McLouth or a Derek Jeter or a Raffy, or a Jim Kaat. And that's just indefensible.

[Old#5fan]

Markakis not winning it disrespects the award more than him not winning it. And in fact, there are about a hundred people with GG's on their mantle that disprespect the players you listed by owning one. Poor argument.

And please don't insult my common sense when you can't grasp the concept of caliber.

The sentence highlighted above is nonsensical. I have no idea what it means, nor would anyone else as it defies logic.

If you are trying to say the Gold Glove Voting committee was wrong in not giving Markakis the award just state it. AT least that would make sense although I don't agree with it.:rolleyestf:

[The Wedge]

The bigger crime is feeding this fire again, however. Walk away. Just walk away.

It's like heroin, but no one offers rehab.

[The Wedge]

The sentence highlighted above is nonsensical. I have no idea what it means, nor would anyone else as it defies logic.

If you are trying to say the Gold Glove Voting committee was wrong in not giving Markakis the award just state it. AT least that would make sense although I don't agree with it.:rolleyestf:

It was a TYPO. I obviously put the second not in there by accident, but it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't pick up on that or understand it. Thanks for pointing it out in the most condescending way possible, though. I'm now officially done with you. Taking you off ignore to try and give you another chance was a colossal waste of time.

AND OF COURSE THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING! That's what the phrase GG Caliber MEANS! GAHAHGHGHAHA