How does Elias build a playoff quality pitching staff?

[now]

26 minutes ago, Chuck A said:

But, he was really good before coming to Baltimore.  /end sarcasm

... and really good that final September. Until that playoff game, thrown into a relief role.

[OriolesMagic83]

I think Hyde is terrible at running a pitching staff.  I lost count of how many times he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of one of our marginally talented starters.  I can at least understand trying to get an extra inning out of Akin or Lowther for their development, but I can't see the purpose of trying to stretch an extra inning out of the multiple journeyman starters who were lucky to give you 4 good innings.  If you get 4 innings out of these guys, you should be happy.  Hyde also seemed to be limited in his use of multi-inning relievers.  I know Buck has a lot of haters here, but he would have gotten a lot more wins out of this pitching staff.  Although maybe getting more wins wasn't the goal. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think Hyde is terrible at running a pitching staff.  I lost count of how many times he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of one of our marginally talented starters.  I can at least understand trying to get an extra inning out of Akin or Lowther for their development, but I can't see the purpose of trying to stretch an extra inning out of the multiple journeyman starters who were lucky to give you 4 good innings.  If you get 4 innings out of these guys, you should be happy.  Hyde also seemed to be limited in his use of multi-inning relievers.  I know Buck has a lot of haters here, but he would have gotten a lot more wins out of this pitching staff.  Although maybe getting more wins wasn't the goal. 

Buck did that a lot as well.

Buck was a lot better at using the bullpen once they got into the game.

[Barnaby Graves]

3 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think Hyde is terrible at running a pitching staff.  I lost count of how many times he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of one of our marginally talented starters.  I can at least understand trying to get an extra inning out of Akin or Lowther for their development, but I can't see the purpose of trying to stretch an extra inning out of the multiple journeyman starters who were lucky to give you 4 good innings.  If you get 4 innings out of these guys, you should be happy.  Hyde also seemed to be limited in his use of multi-inning relievers.  I know Buck has a lot of haters here, but he would have gotten a lot more wins out of this pitching staff.  Although maybe getting more wins wasn't the goal. 

I'm not blaming Hyde.  A lot of those guys can't squeeze out a good 1st inning.

If a starter goes 3 IP 0 ER and Hyde pulls him, does the board think he's a genius or he's a micromanaging idiot?  You can't win with pitching decisions.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard someone actually affirm a manager made a good pitching decision.  It's a minefield of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Barnaby Graves said:

I'm not blaming Hyde.  A lot of those guys can't squeeze out a good 1st inning.

If a starter goes 3 IP 0 ER and Hyde pulls him, does the board think he's a genius or he's a micromanaging idiot?  You can't win with pitching decisions.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard someone actually affirm a manager made a good pitching decision.  It's a minefield of Monday morning quarterbacking.

When the metrics say a guy can't get through a lineup three times I expect an analytically savvy organization to manage accordingly.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think Hyde is terrible at running a pitching staff.  I lost count of how many times he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of one of our marginally talented starters.  I can at least understand trying to get an extra inning out of Akin or Lowther for their development, but I can't see the purpose of trying to stretch an extra inning out of the multiple journeyman starters who were lucky to give you 4 good innings.  If you get 4 innings out of these guys, you should be happy.  Hyde also seemed to be limited in his use of multi-inning relievers.  I know Buck has a lot of haters here, but he would have gotten a lot more wins out of this pitching staff.  Although maybe getting more wins wasn't the goal. 

Hyde had a staff full of young arms he needed to see and garbage pitchers who had no business being here.

Give the guy some actual MLers before judging him.  Everyone wants to put Elias on a pedestal and act like losing on purpose is perfectly fine but then they want to bitch and moan about Hyde.  It’s just dumb.  He’s literally boxing Ali with one arm tied behind his back and people complain that he isn’t knocking him out.

[sportsfan8703]

I see people mention Dillon Tate, but what about Tanner Scott?  He’s a guy that can be dominant if he puts it all together. 

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Hyde had a staff full of young arms he needed to see and garbage pitchers who had no business being here.

Give the guy some actual MLers before judging him.  Everyone wants to put Elias on a pedestal and act like losing on purpose is perfectly fine but then they want to bitch and moan about Hyde.  It’s just dumb.  He’s literally boxing Ali with one arm tied behind his back and people complain that he isn’t knocking him out.

Give those of us that had enough fortitude to actually watch Oriole pitching under Hyde the right to judge his performance.

Yes he had very little to work with, I think everyone is taking that into account.

[interloper]

On 12/21/2021 at 8:26 AM, wildcard said:

How?  When? and Who in the current O's organization will be part of it?

How: through good drafting, good development, smart free agent/trade acquisitions, and luck. The how has never been a mystery. 

When: I predict in 2023 or 2024 we'll have a rotation that could pitch well in a playoff series. I'm not sure they will be a playoff TEAM per se, but I believe the rotation would rival the rotation of 2012. 

Who: In theory, Means and G-Rod helm the top of the rotation. I think ideally they look to have a "big 3" with a free agent or trade acquisition to fit somewhere in the 1-3 spot. Then you hope some of the higher upside guys can fill out the rest of the rotation like Hall or Baumler or Rom. The lesser upside-y guys who we're all familiar with can hold down the #5 spot, or they make an acquisition of some kind. 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Give those of us that had enough fortitude to actually watch Oriole pitching under Hyde the right to judge his performance.

Yes he had very little to work with, I think everyone is taking that into account.

Go ahead and judge him..it’s just absurd to do so, especially if you are making a huge deal out of stuff like this.  Complaining about leaving a guy in an inning too long on a team built to win 7 games is just illogical. I mean, I really can’t think of another word for it.

 

[now]

14 minutes ago, interloper said:

When: I predict in 2023 or 2024 we'll have a rotation that could pitch well in a playoff series. I'm not sure they will be a playoff TEAM per se, but I believe the rotation would rival the rotation of 2012. 

Who: In theory, Means and G-Rod helm the top of the rotation.

Is everyone assuming Means is going to be a bona fide #1-2, two or three years from now? Somehow I'm not that confident.

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, now said:

Is everyone assuming Means is going to be a bona fide #1-2, two or three years from now? Somehow I'm not that confident.

I'm definitely not either, I'm just giving an idea of how it could happen. I actually am pretty firmly on the "we should trade him" side of the line. But if we don't, and he stays healthy, he could be in that 1-3 range. 

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I think Hyde is terrible at running a pitching staff.  I lost count of how many times he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of one of our marginally talented starters.  I can at least understand trying to get an extra inning out of Akin or Lowther for their development, but I can't see the purpose of trying to stretch an extra inning out of the multiple journeyman starters who were lucky to give you 4 good innings.  If you get 4 innings out of these guys, you should be happy.  Hyde also seemed to be limited in his use of multi-inning relievers.  I know Buck has a lot of haters here, but he would have gotten a lot more wins out of this pitching staff.  Although maybe getting more wins wasn't the goal. 

He also burned out Fry and got Wells injured. I'm not sure how it's possible to overuse both starters and the bullpen but somehow Hyde accomplished it 

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, Barnaby Graves said:

I'm not blaming Hyde.  A lot of those guys can't squeeze out a good 1st inning.

If a starter goes 3 IP 0 ER and Hyde pulls him, does the board think he's a genius or he's a micromanaging idiot?  You can't win with pitching decisions.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've heard someone actually affirm a manager made a good pitching decision.  It's a minefield of Monday morning quarterbacking.

It is very difficult to keep a healthy, productive bullpen if you are constantly pulling your starting pitchers before they’ve gone 5 innings.   So sometimes Hyde has to push guys for the long term good of the team.   It comes at a cost in terms of maximizing the chances of winning that night’s game, but sometimes you have no choice.   

[Sports Guy]

17 hours ago, Frobby said:

It is very difficult to keep a healthy, productive bullpen if you are constantly pulling your starting pitchers before they’ve gone 5 innings.   So sometimes Hyde has to push guys for the long term good of the team.   It comes at a cost in terms of maximizing the chances of winning that night’s game, but sometimes you have no choice.   

Glad someone can see the forest through the trees.

You also need to push the young arms to see if they can work through things.  It’s how they learn and how you learn.

In a development year, it’s exactly what he should be doing.