Free agency thread

[geschinger]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he caught wind of the storm that was about to hit the Astros front office and wanted out.

He also of course wanted the promotion, more notoriety, more power, more money.  It was a big step up.

He was not implicated in any way in what hit the Astros FO.  He may have had a good chance to have been promoted had he remained as they did not clean house they only got rid of those MLB direclty implicated/punished.  It's not like he was someone towards the end of his career taking the job because it might be his only opportunity. I don't believe for a minute he came with the expectation that his job as Orioles GM is to never win.  

[Beysbol]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I can't root for Tampa, I know too much about the owner.

Yeah, I remember talking with you and reading a lot about the owner from you. I don't like him as well. I just pretend they don't have an owner because they beat up on the Yankees all the time and I freaking love it. Also, they play well in the East and I like that as well. Can't stand NYY and TOR. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, geschinger said:

He was not implicated in any way in what hit the Astros FO.  He may have had a good chance to have been promoted had he remained as they did not clean house they only got rid of those MLB direclty implicated/punished.  It's not like he was someone towards the end of his career taking the job because it might be his only opportunity. I don't believe for a minute he came with the expectation that his job as Orioles GM is to never win.  

Folks rarely turn down a GM job because you never know if another offer will present itself.

I'm glad Ng got the job in Miami but she was on the interview for inclusion list for how many years before she got the job?  It is very easy to go from next big thing to career assistant in this field.

I'm sure he wasn't expecting to never win, he might, however have been told they will never spend.  Or maybe he was told one thing during the interview process and something else after.  Not like that ever happens right?

[geschinger]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I find it interesting that people casually throw away the idea of winning an extra 20 games.

If you are building something positive and can win 75+ games, I would easily rather have that than a chance to draft Creed Willems in the 8th round or whatever. It’s not even a decision.

I know that's probably a popular opinion with many.  I feel better about the future of the franchise coming off a some 100 loss seasons but now with one of the best farm systems in baseball than I would have had coming off some 75 win seasons with a middle of the pack farm system at best.  Your approach can absolutely work and obviously is less frustrating during the initial years.  I prefer more pain up front to get to a point where sustained long term success is possible quicker.

[seak05]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So?  As long as they kept with the long term plan, why is that a bad thing?  Why is it bad that they put a product on the field that’s good?  Why is it bad that they bring in players who could help those young prospects? 
 

Because the product still wouldn't be good, it would just be slightly less bad. And for that slightly less bad, you're losing draft position and pool money. The Orioles have two ML SP around to help the young prospects, and they signed a catcher to presumably do the same for Adley. 

[geschinger]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sure he wasn't expecting to never win, he might, however have been told they will never spend.  Or maybe he was told one thing during the interview process and something else after.  Not like that ever happens right?

That is of course possible that he was told something else after the interview process.  I don't think someone that young who seemingly is well respected as he was in the industry willingly takes a job where he's told ownership will never give him what he needs to win and that will tarnish his reputation. 

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Why does he make that exception for just the Orioles?

Because they were so far in the hole with lack of talent on the roster and in the minors and international that they weren’t in a position to dig out in that time frame.  

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, geschinger said:

I know that's probably a popular opinion with many.  I feel better about the future of the franchise coming off a some 100 loss seasons but now with one of the best farm systems in baseball than I would have had coming off some 75 win seasons with a middle of the pack farm system at best.  Your approach can absolutely work and obviously is less frustrating during the initial years.  I prefer more pain up front to get to a point where sustained long term success is possible quicker.

Again, the pain has happened and should have happened.  You have the elite farm system and it’s adding a lot more in June.

You don’t need to keep being terrible anymore.  
 

If the team, in 2019, tries to win 70-75 games, ignored the long term, etc..that would have been stupid.  That’s what they did in the 2000s.  But now you have that foundation you wanted and got.  
 

Time to stop being pathetic.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, geschinger said:

That is of course possible that he was told something else after the interview process.  I don't think someone that young who seemingly is well respected as he was in the industry willingly takes a job where he's told ownership will never give him what he needs to win and that will tarnish his reputation. 

Who knows, maybe he thinks he can win with the 28-30th payroll in the league?

Maybe he thinks he can do a respectable job here and get a better job down the line?

All sorts of things are as possible as the owners suddenly deciding to open their wallets.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Again, the pain has happened and should have happened.  You have the elite farm system and it’s adding a lot more in June.

You don’t need to keep being terrible anymore.  
 

If the team, in 2019, tries to win 70-75 games, ignored the long term, etc..that would have been stupid.  That’s what they did in the 2000s.  But now you have that foundation you wanted and got.  
 

Time to stop being pathetic.

If we have the foundation we want and need, then we won't be pathetic for long.

If we're still pathetic, then no, we don't have the foundation we want or need.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

If we have the foundation we want and need, then we won't be pathetic for long.

If we're still pathetic, then no, we don't have the foundation we want or need.

I’m talking about 2022.  And you are MAYBE looking at a decent team in 2023.
 

 

[geschinger]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Again, the pain has happened and should have happened.  You have the elite farm system and it’s adding a lot more in June.

You don’t need to keep being terrible anymore.  
 

If the team, in 2019, tries to win 70-75 games, ignored the long term, etc..that would have been stupid.  That’s what they did in the 2000s.  But now you have that foundation you wanted and got.  
 

Time to stop being pathetic.

If you agree that the approach has been correct and now it's time to try to win 75 games now then it's not a difference of opinion on philosophy but rather timing.  I would not have minded seeing the team make more moves to improve this off season for positions where there aren't any potential future pieces in relatively close.  But I'm also not opposed to playing out the year pushing prospects at the MLB level to see what they have.  My benchmark for a successful teardown/rebuild was to get back to .500 and have a top tier farm system in 5 years.  Like I mentioned in a previous post I think that the team is a year behind schedule but considering the lost year of player development that doesn't concern me. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, geschinger said:

If you agree that the approach has been correct and now it's time to try to win 75 games now then it's not a difference of opinion on philosophy but rather timing.  I would not have minded seeing the team make more moves to improve this off season for positions where there aren't any potential future pieces in relatively close.  But I'm also not opposed to playing out the year pushing prospects at the MLB level to see what they have.  My benchmark for a successful teardown/rebuild was to get back to .500 and have a top tier farm system in 5 years.  Like I mentioned in a previous post I think that the team is a year behind schedule but considering the lost year of player development that doesn't concern me. 

You can acquire guys and push the prospects up.  It’s not an either/or situation.

[seak05]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You can acquire guys and push the prospects up.  It’s not an either/or situation.

Anything anyone ever does has trade-offs., and baseball is no exception. Going from 60 - 75 wins is multiple players on multi-year contracts. At some point that would potentially mean blocking prospects. It also would mean not getting as good of prospects in the draft that could help you in a few years. Even the Yankees have trade-offs. At some point you start to value the short term and trade-off the long term, but the Orioles are probably a year away from that conversation. 

[geschinger]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You can acquire guys and push the prospects up.  It’s not an either/or situation.

Absolutely but whether it's this year or next, I'm not too concerned.  But assume they do nothing else major this year.  Prospects are pushed, start to develop and they win 10-15 more games this year than they did last year and then in 2023 after seeing what they have they start adding some pieces and end 2023 at .500 and while still having a top tier farm system.  What grade do you give Elias?  For me that would be an A+ for the rebuild and the expectations would shift to how to go from there to a championship.  I think this is still an outcome that is possible with everything that has been done up to this point.