Elias prioritizes player development over winning in the majors

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It absolutely is hubris. He’s essentially saying, “these guys I’m selecting are going to be great and our development system is so strong that we will be able to build a competitive club completely on our own.  I can get this organization to 75-81 wins without spending a meaningful dime in free agency.”

 

Alright, Harvard guy.  Let’s see it happen.

 

I don't think you know what hubris means.

[jamalshw]

At the beginning of spring, I don't think most thought any of these three would start in the Majors (Bradish the possible exception). A few pitching appearances and/or a few handfuls of ABs aren't enough to earn your way on a team. The shortened spring training hurts guys like these that may have been better equipped to earn a spot with a couple extra weeks. 

Of course, Hall was never going to make the team. I do like that he's staying back in FL as a way to help limit innings and baby step him. That may allow him to have a few more innings available in the big leagues when he does make it. Unless he gets injured again, I expect Hall in the Majors by July. I think Bradish (if he pitches well) will be up in May. Diaz will need an injury/trade to get his call up, but is probably the next OF up provided he's hitting well.

[Tony-OH]

Quote

“We have very high hopes for them, we have a lot of plans around them, we don’t want to screw them up and screw up their health by rushing them out and having them not properly built up and stretched out and being able to hold their velo late in the games.” - Mike Elias

I think that last sentence is very telling and something that we just don't know about these guys yet. Hopefully this year we start to see Bradish and Rodriguez allowed to go to 100 pitches instead of being on that 80 pitch limit last year. Hall may still be on that 80 -pitch limit through most of the season due to missing most of last year, but even he should be stretched out to 100 by year's end.

I'll be disappointed if we're in May and they are still only going 80 pitches. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

I get the reasoning given by Elias, and the only one I disagree with is Bradish. There is always more to the story. Mike Elias’ abundance-of-caution approach has not changed, however annoying it is to all of us. I no longer will give Elias the benefit of the doubt, however. This is the year he needs to take the training wheels off the prospects and make some moves to build an actual major league roster. 

If you put Bradish in the rotation, who do you remove? Likely Zimmerman or Lowther, who also need experience. I probably have Bradish slightly higher than Lowther but I am fine with him getting the first shot. I would not stash Bradish in the bullpen, I think he is better off starting in AAA.

[Ohfan67]

57 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Mid to small market teams should be focused on competing in the South American markets.  Pinning hopes on the draft is too much of a crapshoot in MLB.  It's weird that they think tanking is the only way.  

What do you think they are doing? They have expanded the Orioles' international program from not really existing to a real, functioning program. You don't go from signing a few dregs and leftovers to signing, developing, and promoting real prospects in two or three years. I want the Orioles to be much better this year and am disappointed that the O's didn't sign two starters and a relief pitcher, but I think indirectly criticizing the Orioles for their international effort is misleading. I'm not thrilled with the pace of the plan, but Elias and company are being incredibly consistent and have certainly dramatically increased international efforts.  

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If you put Bradish in the rotation, who do you remove? Likely Zimmerman or Lowther, who also need experience. I probably have Bradish slightly higher than Lowther but I am fine with him getting the first shot. I would not stash Bradish in the bullpen, I think he is better off starting in AAA.

Who do you remove?  Who the hell is even in it besides Means and Lyles?  I think ZImmerman is also a lock.  The other 2 spots are up for grabs.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

What do you think they are doing? They have expanded the Orioles' international program from not really existing to a real, functioning program. You don't go from signing a few dregs and leftovers to signing, developing, and promoting real prospects in two or three years. I want the Orioles to be much better this year and am disappointed that the O's didn't sign two starters and a relief pitcher, but I think indirectly criticizing the Orioles for their international effort is misleading. I'm not thrilled with the pace of the plan, but Elias and company are being incredibly consistent and have certainly dramatically increased international efforts.  

You don’t need to be terrible to improve the intl efforts.  They literally have nothing to do with each other.

[interloper]

Absolutely no problem with these moves. People get so bent out of shape, it's silly. 

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t need to be terrible to improve the intl efforts.  They literally have nothing to do with each other.

Nobody said they did.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Absolutely no problem with these moves. People get so bent out of shape, it's silly. 

I think sports' fandom, and the internet at large, is basically a portal to complain for a certain segment of the population.

No matter what the O's do, a segment of the posters here are going to slam them for it.  That's just what they do.

And people can point to the O's atrocious performance the last few years as if that explains it, but the fact is, people were slamming them when they were doing every possible thing to maximize wins at the ML level, and won the most games in the AL over a 5 year period.  Ironically, it's often the same people.

[wildcard]

28 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If you put Bradish in the rotation, who do you remove? Likely Zimmerman or Lowther, who also need experience. I probably have Bradish slightly higher than Lowther but I am fine with him getting the first shot. I would not stash Bradish in the bullpen, I think he is better off starting in AAA.

The strange thing about that is the Bradish has achieved more at AAA have Zimmerman or Lowther.   I think Elias explains that when he says Grayson, DL and Bradish are the team's three best starting prospects and they have a plan to develop them.

[deward]

54 minutes ago, vab said:

I don't think it's hubris. It's just - 1) saving money and 2) keeping that 1st round pick high. They have just come to the conclusion that spending money to win 70-75 games vs doing what they're doing now and winning 55 is just not worth it. I have to agree. 

One thing the last few years has taught me is the vast difference in entertainment value in watching a 75 win team vs a 55 win team. It strikes me that the risk factor of completely neglecting the big league product for years on end is possibly an underrated aspect of this type of rebuild process. A 12 year old today probably barely remembers the last time this team was worth watching. As bad as things were in the 2000s, the team at least managed to put together stretches of entertaining and enjoyable play every year. What happens to the fan base if the next phase doesn't come together the way we all hope? Elias has said they'll spend money when the time is right, but what if attrition and bad luck with the next wave of prospects makes it unclear if the time is right or not? Does he just keep tanking then? I think the risk of permanently losing a generation of young fans isn't negligible. 

[Moose Milligan]

55 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I don't think you know what hubris means.

I beg to differ, I read almost all of your posts.

[OriolesMagic83]

28 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If you put Bradish in the rotation, who do you remove? Likely Zimmerman or Lowther, who also need experience. I probably have Bradish slightly higher than Lowther but I am fine with him getting the first shot. I would not stash Bradish in the bullpen, I think he is better off starting in AAA.

Having too many quality starters won't be a problem for the O's.  I would like to see Lowther get another chance.  His realizing that he can't dominate hitters with his fastball and needs to concentrate on his offspeed pitches seems like a breakthrough.  I would like to see Bradish earn a spot.  If he pitches well enough to be a top 5 starter for the O's (which isn't asking much), he should make the team.  I'm not really sold on Zimmerman, he's another arm who deserves a chance.

[deward]

19 minutes ago, interloper said:

Absolutely no problem with these moves. People get so bent out of shape, it's silly. 

People are getting frustrated that their chosen entertainment product is going to continue to provide no entertainment. Seems understandable. I don't know that the specific names really are the issue.