Mancini ejection?

[OriolesMagic83]

27 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

One thing that's taken me a long time to understand is how early baseball often saw scores like 52-32.  In 1871 they were still over 10 per team per game.

But by 1880 we were down to under five runs a game, including roughly 50% unearned runs.  I think that's mainly due to pitching rule changes.  There were years in the 1860s where the pitcher had to pitch underhanded with both feet on the ground, a stiff elbow, and no breaking the wrist.  Imagine fast-pitch softball, but with both feet planted on the ground and no bending your elbow.  It'd be a miracle if anyone could break 60 mph.

By 1884 Old Hoss Radbourne was throwing no-restrictions overhand with a full windup from a box 50' away.

Imagine DeGrom throwing from 50 feet away.  His rate would likely be over 20/9 IP.

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Would you say Mancini immediately returned to the base?

I think that it's enough of a judgement call that I wouldn't call it a bad call, just one I don't agree with.

Just as immediately as any other runner does in that situation.   We 

[RZNJ]

32 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Yes, Mancini was immediately returning to the base.  Otherwise, we would have 1B tagging players not running back to the bag after running through it.

That's correct.  The issue isn't that he didn't get back to the bag fast enough, it's that the ump thinks Mancini made an attempt or effort to advance to 2B.  Apparently, if you even flinch without actually turning and stepping towards second that's enough for last night's umpire. 

[tntoriole]

The rule 

 

According to rule 5.09(b)(4) in the MLB rule book, a runner can be tagged out when:

“He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base.

EXCEPTION: A batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base.”

What’s more, according to Rule 5.09(b)(11), a runner can be called out if “he fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged.”

 

“If he attempts to run to second…”

Show me where Trey attempted to run to second .. this type of nonsense should be challengeable and if overturned, the umpire should then have mandatory remedial  training about the rule lol  

[Pushmonkey]

Maybe the ejection will fire up the team?

[DrungoHazewood]

23 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Imagine DeGrom throwing from 50 feet away.  His rate would likely be over 20/9 IP.

Now imagine DeGrom throwing from 50 feet away against mostly hitters from low A ball, which was (charitably) the quality of what we call the major leagues in Old Hoss' time.  His Providence teammates averaged 5' 9", 165 pounds.  All white guys, all but three of them from the northeast US or Canada. And they played 114 games from May 1st through mid-October so they'd often have 2-3 off days a week, sometimes in a row.  A good modern pitcher would be almost unhittable.  Radbourne was listed at 5' 9", 168 and averaged 5.8 K/9 in 678 innings.  They would have thought Randy Johnson was some kind of demon spawn.

[DrungoHazewood]

23 hours ago, RZNJ said:

That's correct.  The issue isn't that he didn't get back to the bag fast enough, it's that the ump thinks Mancini made an attempt or effort to advance to 2B.  Apparently, if you even flinch without actually turning and stepping towards second that's enough for last night's umpire. 

It's like the Bible and adultery.  God knows if you thought about it, even if you never acted on the thought you need to repent.