Here lies the problem....

[Ballgame64]

Only two teams can win the AL East. Give up!! Why bother.

The Rays and who else?

Nice post BB. As a Cub fan I feel your pain. During the Roberts trade talks last year, many Cub fans were chastised for their posts about AM, but I think you are starting to see why they posted the way they did.

In his time with the Cubs, the farm system was no where near what it should have been so for a guy who believes in building from the ground up, you can't really say his time in Chicago was a success - from a baseball standpoint. From a business standpoint, AM and John McDonough did a fantastic job turning the Cubs into a cash cow.

Do I think he can rebuild the Orioles? Yes. But he has to get more aggressive and focus on "fair" trades for both teams. Every trade cannot be a huge win for your team.

[SHAWN555]

Well that sucks for you.

How many places are you going to post this nonsense??

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

It seems a large amount of your posts lately have been attacking people who think differently than you.

[Shopay]

First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

Sorry for the vent....

BB: You raise some valid points, but I have trouble reconciling the two bolded sections. Here is why. We put $20 million per year on the table ($140 million for seven years) with our initial offer and appear to have been willing to increase that to at least $21.4 million per year ($150 million for 7 years). Notwithstanding what Tex ultimately signed for, both of these offers are a lot of money. In fact, IIRC, before the bidding started many people were estimating that we could sign Tex for something in the ballpark of these offers. Maybe AM believed the same thing. So he put the initial offer on the table and said he had flexibility. Given you're agreement that he shouldn't have gone over $20 million per year, what more could he have done? Not make an offer? He would have been crucified if he didn't, especially if Tex had signed for $140 to $150 million range many on this board thought he would sign for.

[El Gordo]

First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

Sorry for the vent....

This post is no surprise to me but I'd be more interested in hearing your ideas about what specifically, not generally, we should be doing instead. What FA SP, e.g should we be targeting instead of Henrickson Redding etc, assuming we won't be in a position to contend before 2010 at the earliest. And what about the fact that we now have Freel as a stop gap at 2B as well as Turner behind him, should we trade BRob, and Waring as a possible 3B after Mora. How much money will it cost us to expand our international scouting and fixing our poor player development? I seem to be hearing someone who expects us to be ready to contend next year if only AM can multitask.:rolleyestf:

[Lester Freamon]

First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

Sorry for the vent....

Great post.

We are obviously, as an organization, putting a great deal of faith in Weiters, Matsuz, Arrieta and Tillman. If they don't pan out, which if we're being honest, has a greater chance of happening then any of them, let alone all of them reaching their potential, we'll be back at square one again with little hope of getting out of the cellar.

Now, I personally am a huge fan and a hopeful fan, but I can still appreciate a jolt of perspective.

[SrMeowMeow]

First let me say I too probably would not have exceed $20 million per year. So I have no problem with the O's not signing him. I also want to stress that this thread is not intended to be an Andy MacPhail bashing session. That being said I do need to point out again that in this day and age the business model AM has used in the past, the methodical way he deals with tasks, and his general overall lack of moves over tha past 11 months may not be the best to get this team out of the situation where it is.

Alright.

Let's first take into consideration that AM has never signed a major free agent. His style as we have just witnessed is to sit back and wait. Instead of being aggressive in the pursuit we make a decent offer 2 weeks ago and do nothing to attempt to convince the player to sign here. He had to know the threshold was $20 million and his offer was not going to get the job done. Why do nothing except sit and hope???

How can you possibly know his style? I don't understand how people think they can see inside his head. How did AM sit back and wait any more than any other team did? How can you say we did nothing to convince him? Nobody knows how the negotiations went! How would he know what Teixeira would ultimately sign at? If you're interested in a player, you decide your top price, you make offers until you hit that limit, and then you bow out. You don't print money for Boras by jumping through his hoops.

I'll be the first to give him credit for the 2 trades he made 11 months ago. At the same time you have to take into consideration he traded two big chips. This was something that no other GMs as far back as Pat Gillick were allowed to do with the exception of Syd Thrifts fire sale which amounted to squat. The current state this team is in we cannot stand on two deals that involved 2 of our star players. More needs to be done and it hasn't.

I agree that he's had a lot more talent to deal than many GMs.

We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave.

How are we not multi-tasking? The Teixeira drama probably forced teams who weren't even INVOLVED to slow down their pace.

The current front office thinks small. The fact we're considering Mark Hendrickson for our rotation is a major joke. The contracts we've offered to Looper, Redding and the Japan pitchers are very lowballish. This organization can afford a whole lot more investment in quality players from the $$$ side than the Minnesota teams of MacPhail.

MacPhail is also not a risk taker. In the same division we need to take some risks in hopes of catching lightning in a bottle. Is there anyone who would rather have Hendrickson over a year of Bartolo Colon???

How can Hendrickson be a big deal? He's signing a warm body for the rotation. If you sign Colon to a one-year deal and he breaks out bigtime, you think he's gonna resign? We'll get one year of a good pitcher and maybe a compensation pick as the absolute, sky-scrapingest upside.

Fianlly I don't think AM sees the entire picture. My question is quite simple... Who is our starting infield for 2010??? No one in the farm that's for sure. Who's in the rotation? Will Arrieta, Tillman and Matsuz become another Liz, Olsen, and Penn??? Hopefully not but what are the plans if they're not?

I guarantee he sees the whole picture. At least, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until I see evidence that he doesn't. Do you think he's not aware of what positions we're thin at in the minors? As for pitching, we have as deep a pitching farm as any team in the majors. If they all fail, we're screwed. But MacPhail has stressed inventory and redundancy and if we get bad luck, we get bad luck. We're as prepared as humanly possible. What would make our 2010 rotation better, signing a FA? Targeting only pitchers in trades and drafting? We'll have to wait and see how the prospects do.

Again I really not as frustrated about losing Tex as most here are. My concern is THE PLAN and how we're not doing enough to make up for a Tex signing. By the way...don't think the $20 million we put on the line for Tex will be used for other players.

What do you mean about "making up for a Teix signing?" If you mean fan reaction, the only thing I think would be worse than MacPhail bowing to Angelos on baseball decisions would be bowing to the fans on baseball decisions. And how do you know the money won't be spent?

I guess my point is, haven't we had enough rumor and guesswork? Can't we let him produce results and then debate his value? At this point I think the best thing we can do, as fans, is trust MacPhail. He's given us no reason to doubt him.

[Ravenwise]

My biggest problem about cutting the payroll the way we have and not being aggressive in trying to sign MT is the message it sends our current Boras clients and players approaching free agency.

Right or wrong it creates the perception that AM will do less than everything he can to win. Without a doubt Weiters and Markakis were watching this as closely as we were and are already thinking of whom they'll player for next.

In my humble opinion, Roberts, Weiters, Markakis and Jones will all leave via free agency because the reality is they want their team to win in free agency as much as on the field.

I honestly see the Orioles becoming the Marlins of the American League. Trading ML talent for prospects instead of being aggressive to fill the gaps on your ML roster to win with and growing talent to support them. We'll just grow talent to trade or send out via free agency for someone else to win with.

I hope Weiters and Markakis like New York.

[Sports Guy]

BB mentioned risk taking.

Sheets should be our target now.

If Sheets had been healthy the last several years, he would be getting more than Burnett got.

Instead, he will be lucky to get 3 guaranteed years at this point.

That is a deal we should jump all over...3/36-40...with a 4th year option.

He will be hard pressed to beat that offer IMO.

Whether you get rid of BRob, et al or not doesn't matter...Sheets is a guy that can head your rotation for the next 3-4 years and you can acquire him at a very reasonable cost in comparison to his ability.

[Aberdeener]

"We hear the need to build from the ground up. That's all in good, but can be accomplished the same time as reloading the major league team via trades, waiver claims, free agent signings, signing of international talent. We're not multi tasking. Another problem with the building from the ground up is by the time the suspects become (or if they become) major league ready your current productive players will be ready to leave."

Exactly. By the time today's prospects come around, we might not have Nick, BRob, Guthrie and Huff. Then what? At some point you have to mix in quality free agents and an 8 or 9 year contract to Teix fit that bill.

[hatepaste]

BB mentioned risk taking.

Sheets should be our target now.

If Sheets had been healthy the last several years, he would be getting more than Burnett got.

Instead, he will be lucky to get 3 guaranteed years at this point.

That is a deal we should jump all over...3/36-40...with a 4th year option.

He will be hard pressed to beat that offer IMO.

Whether you get rid of BRob, et al or not doesn't matter...Sheets is a guy that can head your rotation for the next 3-4 years and you can acquire him at a very reasonable cost in comparison to his ability.

It is a reasonable cost in comparison to his ability because he is such an injury risk.

Doesn't matter, Orioles have Mark Hendrickson on the radar. There is no interest in Sheets.

[hihop07]

BB mentioned risk taking.

Sheets should be our target now.

If Sheets had been healthy the last several years, he would be getting more than Burnett got.

Instead, he will be lucky to get 3 guaranteed years at this point.

That is a deal we should jump all over...3/36-40...with a 4th year option.

He will be hard pressed to beat that offer IMO.

Whether you get rid of BRob, et al or not doesn't matter...Sheets is a guy that can head your rotation for the next 3-4 years and you can acquire him at a very reasonable cost in comparison to his ability.

Sigh. Roch just said in his blog that the Orioles do NOT have any interest in Ben Sheets.

[Trace21230]

bb, how realistic do you think this rotation is going into next season?

Guthrie

Olson

Liz

Waters

Penn

This can't be our OD starting rotation....can it?

:cussing:

[Sports Guy]

Sigh. Roch just said in his blog that the Orioles do NOT have any interest in Ben Sheets.

Did he? Not surprising...I have been told AM is afraid of his injury history, so I am not surprised by this.

[Sports Guy]

LOL......You think AM is going to sign Ben Sheets?

No, not at all...I was just addressing the idea of risk taking.

[pacman59]

In 1998 the O's were the fourth most valuable franchise in baseball according to Forbes. We were behind the Yanks, Tribe, and Braves. The Red Sox were 9th.

Estimated value was $350,000,000.

The 2008 list has us at 18th, with a value of $388,000,000.

That is a very poor return over 10 years.

During those 10 years we have a had a losing record every year, we have had constant turmoil in the front office, and we have become less attractive to potential free agents who are looking to go to a team that can be competitive.

In sports you build the value of your franchise by building the brand. The O's have done an extremely poor job of brand building, and the fallout is that we have been unable to compete on the field, and over the last few years we have been unable to compete in the free agent market.

The one constant in those ten years, Peter Angelos.