07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

55 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Vavra's minor league OPS vs. lefties the last 3 seasons have been .701, .500 (45 plate appearances, as he was hurt most of 2021), and .696.

Odor's career MLB OPS vs. lefties is .689 (.728 against righties).

I think Odor gives them a beter chance to win against MLB lefties at this point. It is unfortunate that the Rays have started lefties in two of the three games against the O's since Vavra came up, and I agree that Vavra should have started last night, but I don't think sitting Vavra today against a lefty is a bad call.

Agreed the bad call (if there is one) was not playing Vavra against a RHP last night knowing that a LHP is starting for the Rays in a lunchtime special game today. 

[foxfield]

59 minutes ago, interloper said:

Honestly this series has made me sour on Hyde immensely. I don't even want to watch the game today. What is the thought process here? It feels like the Duquette/Buck disconnect all over again. 

Wow, I really wouldn't worry about that at all.  First of all, the Buck DD dynamic existed for a multitude of reasons.  None of which are present here.  Buck was hired by PA and then PA hired DD.  They both essentially reported to Peter Angelos and Angelos sometimes took sides and sometimes went against both.

There will never be a "disconnect" between Hyde and Elias.  The sole reason for that is that when Hyde stops following and fulfilling the wishes of Elias he will be gone.

That isn't gonna make you feel any better about todays lineup, but cheer up.  Things are getting better...getting better all the time.

[Jammer7]

They have normally tried to have guys make their debut appearance in a situation they can have the best chance of success. Like @MurphDoggpointed out, he isn’t great against LHP. I’d like to see him too.

Just a thought, but maybe there is a team looking at Odor. It may not be likely, just a thought. 

[spleen1015]

If you care about making the playoffs this year, Vavra should be playing since it looks like he's better than Odor.

If you care about the future, Vavra should be playing since he needs the experience. Why call him up, not play him, taking AAA AB away from him?

[webbrick2010]

Not that anyone is going to miss Arauz ....

but yet another injury caused by sliding hands first

I'd like to see an analytics driven organization like the Orioles be the first to ban hands first slide throughout their system

Lou Brock stole 118 bases sliding feet first

Chances are we will lose someone important (Mullins, Mateo) eventually

[MurphDogg]

14 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

If you care about making the playoffs this year, Vavra should be playing since it looks like he's better than Odor.

If you care about the future, Vavra should be playing since he needs the experience. Why call him up, not play him, taking AAA AB away from him?

I do think he should be playing over Odor against righties. Don't think it is clear cut against lefties. But if you think you can get more than a bag of balls for Odor at the deadline  and playing him every day effectuates that, then play him every day for an extra week.

[ChuckS]

9 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I do think he should be playing over Odor against righties. Don't think it is clear cut against lefties. But if you think you can get more than a bag of balls for Odor at the deadline  and playing him every day effectuates that, then play him every day for an extra week.

The problem is Odor isn't even worth a bag of balls to a contender.  Nobody wants a marginal defender hitting .197 as their starting second baseman and he provides no value as a utility player since he can only play second base. 

It's a nice theory and would be a reason to continue to play him for the next week if he had any trade value.  But he doesn't. In fact, I would argue he has negative value. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by ChuckS

[interloper]

48 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

If you don't care if they win or lose, why do you care at all about the lineup and who's in it?  Why are you paying attention to any of it?

The team is doing well.  I think most people would like to see that continue, and would like the team to put their best foot forward daily, as long as they don't do anything stupid to impact the long term vision.  Sitting Vavra for a few games certainly doesn't qualify as impacting long term. 

An all RH lineup makes sense given the numbers shown in this thread, even though I would have left Mullins in there myself.  I wonder if TB changes their pitching strategy as a result?  I don't think they formally announced Yarborough, maybe they pull a fast one and go for a straight up BP game, who knows.

 

I don't love the lineup but I'm not going to suddenly thing Hyde sucks because of it (not saying you are doing that, but others have said essentially that).

Because I want to watch the good young players from our top-rated farm system play instead of these filler guys like Odor and Nevin, I think that's pretty obvious. I would rather lose and watch Vavra than lose and watch Odor. It's all about getting these guys experience ahead of 2023. Elias knows that, and I'm not saying he doesn't. But it's frustrating how slow the team is about mixing in these guys. Bradish is "under consideration" for replacing Wells. He should be an absolute lock for that spot and they should say as much. 

I dunno - my panties are in a bunch clearly. I'm tilted about this Vavra thing because it took so long for them to finally call him up, and they refuse to use him for unknown or very bad reasons. And I don't even love Vavra as a prospect! It's the principle of the thing and the optics of bad decision-making. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by interloper

[SteveA]

3 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

The problem is Odor isn't even worth a bag of balls to a contender.  Nobody wants a marginal defender hitting .197 as their starting second baseman and he provides no value as a utility player since he can only play second base. 

It's a nice theory and would be a reason to continue to play him for the next week if he had any trade value.  But he doesn't. In fact, I would argue he has negative value. 

The Yankees traded for him just a year ago.

[Fiver6565]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Because I want to watch the good young players from our top-rated farm system play instead of these filler guys like Odor and Nevin, I think that's pretty obvious. I would rather lose and watch Vavra than lose and watch Odor. It's all about getting these guys experience ahead of 2023. Elias knows that, and I'm not saying he doesn't. But it's frustrating how slow the team is about mixing in these guys. Bradish is "under consideration" for replacing Wells. He should be an absolute lock for that spot and they should say as much. 

I dunno - my panties are in a bunch clearly. I'm tilted about this Vavra thing because it took so long for them to finally call him up, and they refuse to use him for unknown or very bad reasons. And I don't even love Vavra as a prospect! It's the principle of the thing and the optics of bad decision-making. 

Its been three days on Vavra.  I just don't get everyone freaking out about that, its baffling.

 

Also is there an option where you can win and watch?  You talk about losing and watching Vavra and losing and watching Odor.  We've won quite literally half our games, and Vavra hasn't started a single one of them. Odor has started almost all.  Its an odd thing to say 'I would rather lose and watch Vavra than lose and watch Odor' when we've watched Odor all season, and won plenty.  Not to say how much (or little) Odor is responsible for that, just how about we consider the 'win and watch xx play' option?

[MurphDogg]

5 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

The problem is Odor isn't even worth a bag of balls to a contender.  Nobody wants a marginal defender hitting .197 as their starting second baseman and he provides no value as a utility player since he can only play second base. 

It's a nice theory and would be a reason to continue to play him for the next week if he had any trade value.  But he doesn't. In fact, I would argue he has negative value. 

I agree, I don't think he has any trade value and don't believe he will be traded. But it would be a good explanation.

[ChuckS]

7 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The Yankees traded for him just a year ago.

Not exactly accurate.  That was a salary dump that included cash considerations from Texas at the beginning of the 2021 season and part of a three team trade.  Odor is also further removed now from being a productive player.  

If you want to find me the major league team in contention where Odor is a meaningful upgrade for them at 2B, I'm all ears. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by ChuckS

[interloper]

20 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

Its been three days on Vavra.  I just don't get everyone freaking out about that, its baffling.

 

Also is there an option where you can win and watch?  You talk about losing and watching Vavra and losing and watching Odor.  We've won quite literally half our games, and Vavra hasn't started a single one of them. Odor has started almost all.  Its an odd thing to say 'I would rather lose and watch Vavra than lose and watch Odor' when we've watched Odor all season, and won plenty.  Not to say how much (or little) Odor is responsible for that, just how about we consider the 'win and watch xx play' option?

3 days is way too many days, are you kidding? We are actively playing the worse baseball player. Just like we did with Owings. And yes, we are winning a good amount. We might be winning more with Vavra out there instead of Odor. But if we do lose with Vavra out there, that's still a far superior option than watching Odor because he's at least getting experience and we're learning about what we have in the player. 

[Fiver6565]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

3 days is way too many days, are you kidding? We are actively playing the worse baseball player. Just like we did with Owings. And yes, we are winning a good amount. We might be winning more with Vavra out there instead of Odor. But if we do lose with Vavra out there, that's still a far superior option than watching Odor because he's at least getting experience and we're learning about what we have in the player. 

are you kidding?  three days is way too many?  Two of them against lefties.  Good lord its a 180 day season and everyone has their hair on fire over these three games and the two Stowers didn't play.

I would have played him last night but I'm not going to freak out because he didn't.  Its just silly at this point.  There's a human element to just straight up benching a player.  Odor is not great or even good in most aspects, but he has way more track record than a guy like Owings, that's not a fair comparison.  And absolutely zero consideration for defense and DP turn for which Odor has been quite good and Vavra is questionable, by all reports.

[JimGinSP]

2 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

Guess who is on the bench again

Only excuse, his wife is having contractions, otherwise I retract my commentary on pg 9.